Comic Pants Podcast #27
This time out, the Panteon’s thoughts turn toward comic book villains. Randy Lander, David Martindale (D3), Dan Grendell, and Nick Budd discuss who they think is the best villain, what makes a villain special, how far is too far for a villain to go (if there is a limit), and plenty more. Dave Farabee is practicing his breakdancing for an upcoming competition, so he’s not available to give his ideas. Who do you think is the best villain? Let us know your thoughts in the comments section.
It looks like response was pretty much in favor of the shorter, weekly podcasts, so we’re going to keep that as our new standard. If a topic is too hard to split into two, we may occasionally do a single longer one, but we don’t expect that to happen often.
As always, commentary is welcomed and encouraged. Let us know what you thought of the podcast, and if you have suggestions for future podcast topics, leave us a comment or write in to the show! Listeners who write in could win cool comics with each broadcast! Please drop us a line at comicpantsfeedback@gmail.com to give us some questions or comments for the next show.
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Favorite Villain: Iron Man
28 May 2007 at 7:59 am
QuoteI actually think he’s more interesting as a full-blown, manipulative, egotistical bastard than as the arrogant superhero he was before.
28 May 2007 at 8:04 am
QuoteI really like Taskmaster. The guy is really a great match with captain america because of his mastery in hand to hand combat!
28 May 2007 at 8:55 am
QuoteFirst off haven’t listen to the podcast yet but I though I’d weigh in and yeah what can I say I like cheesy villains. They got gobs of wacky style and pizazz and they’re are fun to read about too. You can keep your brooding overlords and all powerful conquerers, make mine the second stringers!
Some Favs.
Batroc, a character who while, undeniably cheesy, has some more depth and coolness than first meets the eye, heck, they guy has managed to garner a measure of respect for Captain America.
Killer Moth, before his days as some silly moth demon, I thought this guy was cool, he wasn’t even that lame in beginning, more of Batman’s opposite number, suave millionaire who criminals could call on, using an infrared moth signal of course, when they wanted help pulling off a job.
Stilt-Man, the man walks around on giant metal stilts, you just can’t get more cheesy-cool than that!
Nightshade, a.k.a. Deadly Nightshade, a.k.a. Queen of the Werewolves a quasi obscure villainess who’s mostly tangled with Captain America and Luke Cage and Iron Fist, though she made a much welcome, by me anyway, reemergence during Christopher Priests run on Black Panther. This lady is just cool, a sexy, bratty, mad scientist, with a blacksploitation twist.
28 May 2007 at 10:17 am
QuoteSounds like you’ve never read any good Iron Man stories.
Not surprising, since almost none of Iron Man’s stories are in trade form, and the ones that are tend to be put out to back up the “Iron Man, Mechanical Super-Bastard” take that Marvel has decided to go with.
But if you’re of a mind to read some good Iron Man stories where he’s the hero, not some arrogant jerk, check out the run by Denny O’Neil, or either of the runs by Bob Layton. It’s as close as anyone gets to a definitive Iron Man, and there you’ll find a Tony Stark who is far more human and heroic than the arrogant hero characterization that any number of “two arcs and then I’m done” writers have turned him into.
28 May 2007 at 12:08 pm
QuoteLove Taskmaster. Just the other day I was telling the guys about my favorite use of the character, where he was brought in to train John Walker in how to use Captain America’s shield, since his powers allowed him to exactly mimic how Cap threw it.
The question is, skull-face Taskmaster or hockey-face Taskmaster? While I have some issues with the garish original costume, I found the Udon-designed hockey-face Taskmaster dull.
28 May 2007 at 12:10 pm
QuoteI havn’t read the stories in a year or two, but I think that Dr. Psycho was played as the hanibal lecter villain in both Rucka’s Wonder Woman and Manhunter. Still don’t like him though.
Personally my favorate is Luthor. I prefer the supergenius Luthor who is a master of everything he puts his mind to, including business
for a few of my smaller time favorates:
Batroc: been said to death, but “Ze leaper” is “Ze shit”
Time Trapper: specifically during the Giffen and Levitz run, where he was explained and entropy incarnate
Ragdoll: when he was revamped by Robinson into almost a Charles Manson type charachter with a following and became scary as shit
28 May 2007 at 3:24 pm
QuoteI’ll have to check out the O’Neil and Layton runs on the series; I was never a big fan of Iron Man growing up, so the only time I read him was in the Avengers and his appearances in other books.
I still like Iron Man as a villain, though. After Civil War I think he’s damaged goods and could be a tragic villain along the lines of a Doctor Doom or Magneto, i.e., he uses morally questionable means to achieve what he imagines to be a greater good.
Marvel doesn’t have the balls to run with idea, though. To take an example: one month Magneto’s “good”, the next he’s “bad”. Enough already!
28 May 2007 at 3:50 pm
QuoteDefinitely skull-face. Just got a look at Udon’s version and didn’t like it. Old school taskmaster rocks
28 May 2007 at 4:57 pm
QuoteI think you guys are forgetting that Emma Frost was changed into a hero when she was made headmistress of Generation X. Morrison just took that pre-established plot and decided to make her interesting. So I tend to give him all the credit for how much I like her on the X-Men and none of the blame for the loss of the White Queen.
My favorite villain ever is the Joker, with Dr. Doom and Magneto as runners up.
28 May 2007 at 6:04 pm
QuoteFirst, whoever tapped something throughout the podcast, that was annoying.
Second, a thought for a Rumble Pants fight, Flash Rogues vs. Iron Man Rogues. There are so goofy in terms of name and powers at times, but dangerous when written well.
Third, Sandman was a great villian to hero conversion that was changed and that screwed things up. He was awesome as a hero struggling, as a once villian training others that had done wrong, the encounters with Heroes he once fought was great. Miss that heroic William Baker, not liking the fact he was returned to Flint Marko.
28 May 2007 at 7:01 pm
QuoteI would have said Luthor as THE villain until you made your points about Doom. He may be, in usage and execution, the best villain period. Of course, when he’s written wrong, that’s just a DoomBot.
As for weird villians, Ambush Bug was a bad guy when first introduced, and he was a lot of fun.
Composite Superman is one of my favorites, too. Just weird, and tres powerful with his having the powers of the LSH.
As for real villains I like…
Amazo always worried me when the JLA fought him. He had all their powers and was a pretty good foe. I like the V stripes better than the tank top, though.
Brainiac, especially as written in the JL cartoon, is a visually cool and interesting bad guy.
For Batman, I’ve always liked Two-Face, as he’s the dark side of obsession and was once Bruce’s friend, as well as Riddler, since it’s good for Batman to have someone he has to outTHINK.
And Mordru was always cool since the LSH was actually afraid of him. One time he got loose and the heroes went and hid in the 20th Century.
28 May 2007 at 8:19 pm
QuoteI’ve never been able to take Mordru seriously since I saw Gabriel Dell play him in the short-lived 1979 live-action show Legends of the Superheroes. The show was awful, and Mordru was dressed in his old half-robe wizard outfit. The worst thing, though, was that he chased them around on a jetski. Powerful wizard needing a jetski.
Sorry, can’t be afraid of him anymore.
28 May 2007 at 9:29 pm
QuoteBizarro may be my favorite DC villain of all time, just because his gimmick is so simple yet so cool. I’m just a bit annoyed that some writers forget he’s as powerful as Superman and kind of write him weak; the fact that he is just as powerful as Supes - I believe the current incarnation is supposed to have more raw power, in fact - is a big part of what makes him work for me.
I also really love Arcade (possibly my favorite Marvel villain of all time), especially in the Claremont X-Men stories. Sometimes he gets mischaracterized as a Joker/Toyman type of guy who’s childish and just likes games and gimmicks, which is a shame, since he’s really more of a slick, arrogant, playboy-ish type who is cold-blooded brutal. The whole Murderworld thing isn’t just because he likes toys and theme parks - it’s because he’s a sadistic bastard who wants to see the heroes suffer.
29 May 2007 at 5:38 am
Quote29 May 2007 at 9:14 am
QuoteAw, don’t tell me I’m the only fan of hockey-mask Taskmaster! :p I like the classic costume too, though.
Back on topic: though I have many favorite villains (Lex Luthor, Magneto and the Shade, to name a few), I agree that the best villain (as in, the best at being a villain) has to go to Doctor Doom. Like you guys said, he can take on anyone and put up a good fight. Well, except Squirrel Girl, but that’s a given.
How’s “Armor Wars” in that regard? I’d ask about “Demon in a Bottle” too, but I have the feeling he’s not portrayed too favorably in that one
When you put it that way, Arcade really does seem like a creepy dude. Stupid suit notwithstanding.
29 May 2007 at 9:51 am
QuoteNope, Tomas, you are in fact not the only fan of the hockey mask rendition of the Taskmaster, as it’s my favorite look for the character. It has the whole “I’m a ninja” thing going for it, and for a guy who’s powers allow him to mimic any martial arts or fighting ability that he sees, the look really works.
As for the Shade being a cool villain…Damn, he was very cool, especially in James Robinson’s Starman and in the Justice League stuff on Cartoon Network.
29 May 2007 at 10:28 am
QuoteJust so you know, the term psychotic midgets is offensive. They prefer the term psychotic dwarves or psychotic little people.
Unfortunately, many of my favorite villains were semi-ruined due to over exposure in the 90’s. Villains like Thanos, Deathstroke, and yes, even Lobo, were much cooler before they were used to death.
Not to say that villains can’t be used on an extended basis. I loved Ostrander’s Suicide Squad run, but I think that worked partially because it was a large cast of villains that would occasionally change. Thunderbolts would fall into that category too.
One villain that I always thought was underrated was the New Mutants villain Magus. The dude could tear stars apart and if he even touched you, you were hosed.
29 May 2007 at 4:24 pm
Quotei bought the Luke Cage essential when i read about the Dr. Doom issues. not a wasted purchase.
29 May 2007 at 5:24 pm
QuoteJOker is my favorite villain cause he perfectly marries his character. While I do agree that DOom is more universal I don’t think he has a hero that you would say is a perfect match. Something about joker and batman just feels right. While DOom is a super cool bad ass. Mageneto is really awesome to and is a good counter point to xavier..but he has been ruined in recent years. Darkseid is also another favorite. I think Two Face is one you guys missed…he is empathetic and dangerous. He is also insane but he isn’t a randomly kill everyone sort of insane. He actually has a sense of justice. WHich I don’t think any other insane character has. You also missed Brainiac Who is just awesome. He is cool in the comics but my preferred version is the Superman Animatd series one. An obscure (or atleast I htink he is obscure) viallain you forgot is captain cold. I don’t know why but he is super cool. I think most of you would agree. I think Dr.Destiny is a very good villain you forgot. I mean their might be a freddy krueger think in him but it is none the less a fun idea. Why villain that may not be conisdered a super villain that is cool is the saint of killers from preacher. I think Ozymandias from Watchmen is also a terrific villain. Even you want depth then he is as far as you can probably go. I think SUperman in DKR is also another great villain forthe simple fact of its just fun. Also one villain to hero conversion you forgot is Silver surfer. I think that was actually a great one. One thing you guys did not do was name overrated villains. VENOM……he is probably the most overrated villain ever with carnage and apocalypse coming int close seconds and third. As for how far villains should go…I really don’t think their should be a limit. I think a writer should be allowed to do wtv he wants. Which means to me is if the story calls for it..then show that violence if not don’t. otherwise you guys named most of the really good ones(Grodd, luther,etc Well you forgot deathstroke)
29 May 2007 at 8:17 pm
QuoteI second this–Arcade is one of my favorite villains as well. Madcap is another of my all-time Marvel favorites, even if he is more of a goof than anything….
30 May 2007 at 11:35 am
QuoteThere is a long list good villians. One of my favorites was Master Darque in Valiant Comics. Unfortunately, we may never see how great he could have become.
30 May 2007 at 11:45 am
QuoteIt is an interesting topic and one that plays up the differences between DC and Marvel. This came up last year with the creation of two similar games, Marvel Ultimate Alliance and the Justice League Heroes game. MUA ruled and smoked JLH in all areas but many reviews pointed out the cast of villains play out better in the MUH group than the JLH. I prefer Marvel in many ways (except for lately, stupid Civil War…) because the villains play out better, to me.
That love ends with Arcade, though. I know he has a strong following here but he always came across as a Joker wannabe with a Rube Goldberg style. He is an assassin hired by one person to kill another…but instead of, as Scott Evil noted, just shooting them, he builds a unique theme park to kill someone. Which is a fun idea for Silver Age or earlier but to me was a bad fit for later comics. Claremont’s fun with him was okay back in the day but I thought it was a weak link between the cooler Savage Land stories and the Proteus stories (and then of couse Hellfire Club, Phoenix, etc.).
Good discussion on styles of villains, too. Are they only usable by one hero (like Red Skull and Cap or Loki and Thor) or more universal (Dr. Doom or Kingpin). One style villain not discussed would be the “Institutional” villain. A bad guy that is, in fact, a group of bad guys. Take The Brood, for example, or Skrulls. Hydra or The Hand. Again, I think more along the lines of Marvel than DC. I honestly can’t think of many institutional villains in DC. Legion of Doom doesn’t count!
I agree, Galactus is more “force of nature” than bad guy. I would have agreed with the “only two storylines” available to him until the recent Annihiliation, which made him interesting again. Sure, it involves him eating stuff or needing to eat stuff but including this huge cosmic storyline where he is merely another character and not the “Big Bad” was cool. C’mon, it was the first time I was cheering for Galactus to kick some bad guy ass.
Speaking of that, my history with Annihilus is kind of weak. He used to be a 2nd tier FF bad guy, right? Do you think this jump to universe-spanning bad guy worked or didn’t work? Personally, I liked it but I wonder what long time fans of FF might think of it.
30 May 2007 at 12:37 pm
QuoteIf there’s one villain that I find easier to hate (in a good way) than all others it is Sinestro. Something about the look and the attitude of the guy gets a gut reaction from me that says, “Please, Green Lantern or whoever is handy, punch this guy’s sneer clean off his face.” And he has the power level to be a threat to a lot of superheroes.
30 May 2007 at 1:24 pm
QuoteI love the pod casts. I have to disagree with the focus though that the villian NEEDS to be sympathetic. I agree, a sympathetic villian can make a good story, but the Joker works so well to me because he is so NOT sympathetic. He’s really just madness. I mean, the Alan Moore story added tragedy to his pre-Joker life. But ultimately, the moment he fell into that acid, he became something else, just pure madness. If he really existed in the world, he’d be terrifying. I’d much rather be locked in a room with Doctor Doom than the Joker. And thats what makes him so good. (No knock on Doom, he is awsome and a classic).
To me the Joker works because of what he lacks, restraint and morality. He’s the ultimate nihilist. He’ll kill you and smile as he twists the knife.
I also love the Reverse Flash (both of them), because he’s one of the few villians who when he shows up, things really do change for the Flash. He killed Barry Allen’s wife. Barry killed him, went to trial, etc. (Not many arch villians have the distinction of actually driving the Hero to kill.) He was the symbolic step Wally West needed to take to become the Flash in his own mind. Great stuff. And the new one is really great too.
And a major shout out to the Rouges in general. Gotta love a bunch of people that really boil down to just being thugs. Kind of refreshing. Why rob a bank? Because thats where the money is.
31 May 2007 at 7:01 pm
QuoteI think Omni-man (from invincible) is a great villain. I would’ve liked you guys to talk about villains outside marvel/DC mainstream, or talk about Deathstroke and/or Apocalypse, who are two of my favourites. deathstroke cuz of his style e.g. the fight against the justice league in identity crisis, and apocalypse has some real good time-traveling stories. Sentinals are cool too.
Outside of superhero books Saint-of-killers (preacher) and that yellow b*stard (sin city) are terrifying villains. I also wanted you to talk about heroes fighting each other more civil war or batman/superman conflicts, but I guess they’re only short podcasts and you ran over anyway. stilll thouroughly enjoyable. but yeah omni-man…think about it.
01 Jun 2007 at 2:19 pm
QuoteKeep in mind that this is part one of two parts. We talk about indy villains in the second one.
01 Jun 2007 at 6:25 pm
Quote