Comic Pants Podcast #24
Welcome to the second part of our podcast showing the love to that web-slinging menace, Spider-Man. Panteon members Randy Lander, D3 (Dave Martindale), Dan Grendell, Dave Farabee, and Nick Budd, continue chatting about all thing Spidey, from television shows to comics to movies. This is the second in a new podcasting experiment for us, as we split our long podcasts in two and give you half each week instead of the entire thing biweekly. This week’s podcast takes a look at the villains in Peter Parker’s life, recent events in the comics, and plenty more. Love Spider-Man? Hate him? Don’t care, but love to hear the dulcet tones of Dan Grendell’s voice? Don’t miss this podcast!
Let us know what you think of this new format in the comments. This is just a trial, and we are very curious to hear your thoughts. Like it? Hate it? Prefer one long show? Let us know, so we can figure out how we want to do our podcasts in the long run.
As always, commentary is welcomed and encouraged. Let us know what you thought of the podcast, and if you have suggestions for future podcast topics, leave us a comment or write in to the show! Listeners who write in could win cool comics with each broadcast! Please drop us a line at comicpantsfeedback@gmail.com to give us some questions or comments for the next show.
Use the podcast feed buttons on the sidebar to subscribe, listen via the flash player below, or directly download the MP3 here:
Loading ...
Another cool podcast. Definitely enjoy one every week.
It was interesting to hear your take on what you think Spider-Man 3 will be like and your theories on how the characters would be portrayed. Having seen it I can say some of you were spot on and some were way out! Not gonna say which ones though.
Green Goblin is my favourite Spidey villain but having just read Kraven’s Last Hunt (thanks to you guys), Kraven’s now up there.
Gotta go with Romita Jr as my all time favourite Spider-Man artist. One of my favourite Spidey issues of his was during the Clone Saga (don’t laugh!) where Ben Reilly took on loads of Sentinels on his own. It wasn’t the best story but Romita Jr. really drew the crap out of it. Think it was Spider-Man #74.
06 May 2007 at 1:34 pm
Quotefirst of all I must repeat that weekly podcasts rock!
Spidey is actually my favourite superhero but I haven’t read alot of stuff about him.. Can you post a list of essentials/visionaries/graphic novels that could give me some cool runs on spider man?
Other that that, I’ve seen Spider Man 3 and I was dissapointed, alot what you said about 1 and 2 gets worse (no wise cracks) and Gwen is just a disposable bitch (and seeing the importance she has to spidey, that really ticked me off). I won’t say anything else not to spoil, but it’s not that good.
The only spider man that I’m reading at this moment is SMLMJ HC and Ultimate Spider Man because I like the back to the basics approach seeing that I’m only at the 7th tpb.
Keep up the good work!
06 May 2007 at 2:43 pm
Quoteanother great podcast guys. Saw Spiderman 3 last night…and everyones fears came true packed to much into the movie. Every story line(specifically the venom one) seem to be gone through in like 15 minutes. Even the fight scenes are a mixed bag in my opinion. I have one comment about the movies as a whole though that you guys touched upon. SPideys insults and quips…while they may work in comics I think the reason they may have avoided them in the movie was because it might sound to cheesy during the fights. I may be wrong…but its just a thought. Also Spideys rogues gallery……while I think alot of them have a cool aesthetic I find them quite one dimensional. Aside from kraven and doc ock. I don’t want to make this a batman vs spiderman thread but I do think bats has a far superior rogues gallery and I tell you why. Batmans rogues are great villains just on their own but when you put them up against batman it seems like a perfect match. Like the quintessential arch enemies to me are Joker and batman. I don’t think SPiderman has that….his villains are just generally cool….but seem to not really bring anything to spiderman(aside from doc oc and kraven). At the end of the day the best spiderman artist is John Romita Sr. Ditko may have created the design….but romita perfected everything. When I think of spiderman I think of his designs. When it comes to writers I don’t really have one. Unlike most people…I don’t think spiderman has always had the greatest stories(Of course they are some really good ones). I would probably have to go with Stan Lee and Roger Stern. and who ever is writing Spiderman loves mary jane might have the potetial to usurp those two(I don’t care if its a chick book, it rocks). Anyways something off topic I would like to talk about are other podcasts. Yours was the first podcast I listened to, so I thought of searching of others. Let me tell you, you guys are the best podcast around. Their are like those geekspeak guys…..SO BORING…..they should just give up. THen their is Ifanboy.com and only 1 of the three guys seems to know what he is talking about. Anyways I guess I am just saying that you guys rock at these podcast, and even though I don’t always agree with what you say(Batman Begins rocked, and so did Spiderman 2) I still always enjoy it. Anyways peace out.
06 May 2007 at 2:44 pm
QuoteGwen is just a disposable bitch
Eh? That’s pretty freaking harsh..not to mention crude. How is she a bitch? Mary Jane was more so with her jealousy toward Peter every time he tried to comfort her.
06 May 2007 at 8:39 pm
QuoteSeeing Spider-Man in the theater the first time, the bridge moment really hit me. I was in the moment enough that I thought “Holy crap! Raimi’s gonna kill her!” Of course he wouldn’t but just then… wow.
Structurally, I believe you could have had Gwen in the first movie, as well as MJ, and made it work. MJ could have remained as the sympathetic girl next-door. However, Gwen Stacy as Peter’s chem lab partner and nascent girlfriend would’ve been awesome.
I can see the arguement that it’s maybe too much guilt for the character if he’s got a dead uncle and a dead girlfriend in 2 1/2 hours, but Raimi’s skilled enough to balance the darkness with the fun. He could’ve made it work.
A quick scene of Peter and Gwen in chem class. She asks him out (what? but he’s a dork! so’s she. why not?). Peter walking her home after their first date. Date number two is Thanksgiving dinner with the Osborns and wham… Brooklyn Bridge.
Granted, you’d have to tone down some of Peter mooning over MJ in the first act and change the opening voice over, but so what? By the end of the first film the MJ and Peter relationship would be pretty much in the same place they left it anyway.
Also, at the end of 2, what was the problem with MJ not saying the line “Face it, Tiger. You hit the jackpot?” All the fanboy shout-outs in the first two films (including the awesome walking away from the suit in the trashcan) and we don’t get that line? Sigh.
I haven’t seen 3 yet but my brother called me after he saw it opening night and the two words he used were “villain factory”.
As for the comics, JMS got me buying Spider-Man again regularly for the first time since the McFarlane/Larson runs. Guess when I stopped buying Spider-Man regularly again? Thank you, Norman’s “O” Face. That’s $3 more a month I have for whiskey.
Side note: Millar’s Marvel Knights run was a fun romp. The man writes good action (no, I don’t recall any recent crossover mini-series by him. must’ve missed it).
Additional comment: Kirsten Dunst is the awesome. Just stunning. She’s beautiful. Yes, even the teeth. But I also don’t read EW or many actors’ interviews.
You guys could do 5-6 straight podcasts on Spidey and not run out of material.
07 May 2007 at 12:22 am
QuoteJust wanted to add that watching the Macho Man hit Tobey McGuire in the face with a chair makes me laugh every time.
Snap into a Slim-Jim, Spidey!
Oh, and my favorite Spider-Man villain is the one he can’t beat: past due rent and over due utilities bills.
07 May 2007 at 12:35 am
QuoteYeh Joe, It was in the heat of the moment lol But ok, she’s not a bitch.. Just futile!
07 May 2007 at 6:53 am
QuoteAbout halfway through the podcast, and nobody’s mentioned my biggest problem with the Spidey movies.
Why, doesn’t Spidey’s fuggin’ jaw move when he talks?
07 May 2007 at 7:24 am
QuoteI really love the comic pants podcast, in general. This was an enjoyable one. I often find myself disagreeing with most of the people’s opinion of what works and what doesn’t work while listening to the podcasts, but they are always enjoyable.
My favourite Spider-Man artist would have to be Joe Madureira. My love for his rendition of Spider-Man comes from an Uncanny X-Men episode written by Scott Lobdell and drawn by Joe Madureira. I think it was Uncanny X-Men #346.
My favourite Spider-Man villain would definitely have to be Venom. Not just because he’s so cool visually, but because he represents a legitimate threat to Spider-Man. I think what turns people off on Spider-Man vs. Venom is the fact that since Venom is such a big threat, you lose the verbal abuse that villains get when facing Spider-Man.
I don’t really have a favourite Spider-Man story, just because I don’t think any of them really defines Spider-Man as perfectly as some that exists for other characters. I’d have to say the “Coming Home” TPB by JMS and JRJR really captures the essence of Spider-Man. The heart, the banter, the tough luck, etc.
Great podcast. I have no preference either way, between weekly or 1 every two weeks, as long as the topics are interesting.
07 May 2007 at 8:28 am
QuoteAs someone who started regularly reading Spider-man comics right about when the clone saga started, there’s a lot of stuff there I still have a fondness for. Yes it did annoy me when they revealed Ben as the “real” Peter Parker, and it went on for waaaayyyyyy too long, but I don’t think it’s the worst Spidey has ever been. That dubious “honor” goes to the one-two punch to the testicles that was Sins Past and The Other. Hands down the 2 worst Spider-man stories I’ve ever read, and a big part of the reason I no longer read in continuity Spider-man comics.
As for the movies, I’m much more pleased with the first 2 than it seems like you guys are. I absolutely love both of them, and think they’re pretty close to a perfect translation of the comics (with a few concessions, such as the wisecracks). Unfortunately I can’t say the same about #3. I was one of those “super-hyped” fans in question and it was a huge letdown. I’ve got a laundry list of complaints, but it mainly comes down to “trying to do too much, and doing little of it well”. Geez, I hate sounding like such a whiney fanboy.
Favorite Spidey artist: Romita Sr.
Favorite Spidey villains: Green Goblin and Hobgoblin
07 May 2007 at 2:50 pm
QuoteDefinitely weekly podcasts! Aside from the frequency, it splits up the topics each week, rather than everyone trying to have the big “here’s what I think about everything Spidey” in the same comment-thread. So naturally, I’m going to do just that (sorry, I listened to the Spidey podcasts back-to-back).
Spider-Man was my first collected comic…unfortunately, it was during Maximum Carnage (which I still think isn’t that bad), so I was soon hip-deep in Peter’s “parents,” Ben Reilly, the pre-Slingers (when Peter was actually all of them), and a slew of Image-lite villains. It didn’t hold my interest like the much better Batman Azbats Saga and X-Men Fatal Attractions (oh, what we mid-90s fans had to endure), and Dixon’s Nightwing was a better Peter Parker anyway. I’ve not gone back to the regular Spidey titles since. He’s not my favorite character, but when done right he is downright magical.
I was so-so about the first two movies. The first one fell victim to the Superman: The Movie syndrome, with a spectacular–uh, amazing, actually–first half, then turning into a completely different–and horrible–movie in the second half. I can see how Raimi at the time, not knowing that there would be a sequel, would want to get to the “Peter making his own way in the tough adult world” stories, but in retrospect he would have been better off keeping the vibe of the first half throughout. The second film was much closer to being a “perfect” movie, but it wasn’t very compelling. Much as he nailed “Peter in high school”,” Raimi did a great job with “Peter in the adult world” this time, but it still had a bit of disconnect to the plot.
I liked the third movie best of the three, though it wasn’t as good as the first two. Raimi figured out how to connect Peter’s problems to the plot, and the Peter/MJ/Harry storyline was, a few brain-farts aside, probably the best summer-movie romance since Titanic. Dunst’s dour primadonna acting actually helped her story this time, selling what happened with Harry without ruining the movie. Franco finally got to do something worthwile with Harry, and he was a revelation (better than comics-Harry, even). Church was perfect, Grace stole every scene he was in, and J.K. Simmons once again proves to be the best comic-to-movie translation ever. If only someone had actually edited Raimi (if ever a movie needed Joss Whedon’s script-doctoring, this was it), this could have been the perfect summer movie.
I actually think Maguire is great. He nails Peter pretty well. Yeah, his Spidey isn’t very close to what we expect, but I really think that is Raimi’s doing more than anything else. Raimi isn’t going for the wise-cracking, fun Spidey, so someone like Topher Grace in the role would be wasted. Tobey is the perfect Raimi-Spidey. In fact, most of the main casts of the movies, considering what Raimi’s vision was, were excellent–save Dafoe’s overdone Goblin. Even Dunst, for all the fans complain about her, is pretty close to what Raimi’s MJ would ideally be. And I can’t believe you guys are down on the Russian girl! Are you made of STONE!?!
I’d put Spidey’s villains second behind Batman’s. Bat’s guys, at least the first tier, have a sort of chess match thing going on–it’s as much how they try to defeat him as how he defeats them–that is compelling. That said, Spidey’s guys are more fun and more relatable. My favorite has to be Norman, because of the personal nature of their adversarialship, though Venom can be (though seldom is) very good. Actually, I think the tweaks in Topher’s Venom may seep into the comics, which would be welcome.
Surprised you guys didn’t talk about Spidey’s supporting cast, which has to be the best in comics. May, MJ, Gwen, JJJ, Betty, Liz Allen, Flash, Eddie, Robbie Robertson, Ben Urich, Ned Leeds, Norman and Harry, the Black Cat, Curt Connors…the list goes on and on, and they’re all great. I’d even include some of the heroes, such as Daredevil, Cage and Fist, Torch and Thing, Cloak and Dagger, and even Captain America and Doctor Strange to a certain extent. If Marvel’s New York is a giant playground, it belongs to Spider-Man. Which is why I’ve always wondered why there has never been a major Marvel Event with Spidey as the main hero, seemingly a no-brainer (Maximum Carnage was close, but it’s not “major” if Captain America is the only A-lister to show up).
Much like the X-Men, the only thing that can save Spidey at this point is to wind the clock back. What made Spider-Man stories so unique was their continuity. You can’t just start picking-and-choosing stuff! The best thing to do is say that everything from the first Carnage story onward NEVER HAPPENED. Honestly, is there anything in the past fifteen years anyone would want to keep anyway? Go back to the very beginning of the marriage and try it again (or hell, have it fall apart Ross/Rachel-style in the first week if Quesada doesn’t like it).
Finally, I have to say that Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane is one of the best Spidey tales in years, right up there with Untold Tales. Sure, it’s alternaverse, but McKeever has a template for what the character should be. If only someone could adapt this approach to the adult 616 Spidey, things would be a whole lot better. Then again, this is the Marvel that thought unmasking Peter was a reasonable idea and that the only thing Speedball was missing was masochism, so my hopes are a little fantastic.
07 May 2007 at 4:07 pm
QuoteI don’t know if I really have a favorite Spidey villain since many of them have been screwed up to some degree or another. I loved Kraven in “Kraven’s Last Hunt”, but I can’t say that he’d made much of an impression on me other than that story. Mysterio definitely doesn’t get enough props as a good villain.
I thought Venom was a decent concept in the beginning, but he was way overused. Not only did they do the concept over in Carnage, but for awhile there was like half a dozen other symbiote characters running around (during Maximum Carnage I think).
Ah, the Hypno-Hustler. I think the fact that Spidey has a villain named after a disco dance ages him more than the stuff Quesada is always bitching about.
As for the movies, I actually thought the first one was only so-so, but it seemed to go over well with my non-comic reading family. I just couldn’t get past the awful Green Goblin costume. Despite having a few story flaws, I though the second one was a vast improvement. Still haven’t seen the third one yet.
I think Civil War broke Spider-man more than anything JMS did to him. I can ignore the spider totem stuff, but to me once the character’s identity is out of the bag, he’s wrecked. Yes, Marvel has undone such reveals before with other characters, but to me Spider-man was the one that should have been off limits. No matter how they try and restore him, it will fell like a cop-out.
07 May 2007 at 4:22 pm
QuoteWhat I find funny (and by “funny” I mean sad mostly) is that everyone seems to have a different opinion on what has fucked Spidey up the most, but no one is rushing to play devil’s advocate and say he’s fine as is. Think Marvel is ever gonna catch on to this?
07 May 2007 at 5:03 pm
QuoteProbably not as long as Quesada’s in charge. He seems to run Marvel under the philosophy that it’s better to have people talking about something they hate, than ignoring a book totally.
07 May 2007 at 5:41 pm
QuoteFavorite Spider-man artist: Ross Andru
If I’m not mistaken (and I probably am), Andru drew the issue in which Doc Ock tries to marry Aunt May, which was alluded to in the podcast. (Amazing Spider-man v1 #130?) Anyway, I’ve been a fan of Andru’s Spidey work since the 80s when I stumbled across some back issues he drew.
I also dig the work of John Romita Sr. and Jr.
Favorite Spider-man Villain(s): Sandman. I just like his simple design and powers; I also have a soft spot for working-class villains.
Spidey’s Eyes: Small and creepy, pre-Mcfarlane.
08 May 2007 at 2:25 am
QuoteConsidering Spidey is my favorite character, you’d think I’d read more than just Ultimate and Amazing — and my admiration for Amazing is constantly in jeopardy. As I’ve said on the page before, I really dig JMS’s take on the characters. I think he gets them - particularly Peter. But his plotlines? That stuff is murder. What with all of the things you guys have mentioned — the totem, Sins Past, and the clumsily handled ‘the Other’ — I think a new editor might be in order - one that says ‘JMS, you’re talented, but *this* is the story you’re going to tell . . . ‘
Fav Artist: toss up between JRjr and Mike Zeck
Favorite villain? Tough one, but I’ve always enjoyed the Hobgoblin. (Early appearances of Carrion were fun, too.)
And aside from the Saturday Night Fever sequence in the 3rd film, I loved it.
08 May 2007 at 2:13 pm
QuoteI have to admit I have not read all the comments above (yet!), but I did want to commend you guys on another great, entertaining podcast. I especially enjoyed the “advance review” (?) of Spider-Man 3 and will definitely look forward to hearing what you all thought about the film having seen it (whether in the theater or on video!).
I did enjoy Spider-Man 3 and thought that, yes, there was a lot going on, but it worked fairly well (although the symbiont’s origin was rushed), and it made a nice conclusion to what feels like a pretty well-constructed trilogy.
If there is a future film, though (and I guess there will be, even if the creative team is different), I think the Lizard and Kraven would make a natural “team-up” for a future Spider-Man film: Dr. Connors goes reptillian, and maybe Spidey can’t catch him at first to get him to take the antidote, so NYC (or whomever — the feds?) call in Kraven, only with a secret agenda to just take Connors out because he’s discovered some Big Bad Secret They Don’t Want Us to Know — so Spider-Man must fight Kraven and stop him from catching Connors, who, as the Lizard, is not in his right mind and wants to kill Spidey…
08 May 2007 at 2:33 pm
QuoteIf you like Ross Andru, check out the new DC Showcase Presents: The War That Time Forgot. Not only is it about soldiers fighting dinosaurs, which just totally kicks ass, most of the pencils are by Andru.
The Doc Ock wedding to Aunt May played out over Amazing Spider-Man issues 130-132, and the first two of those three were indeed done by Andru. John Romita did the third one.
09 May 2007 at 2:24 am
QuoteSoldiers fighting dinosaurs is almost never a bad thing; I’ll check it out.
09 May 2007 at 6:51 am
QuoteYou know who cites Ross Andru as a big influence? J. G. Jones.
The thing is, the JMS retcons are so conceptually shaky, since he was so lazy with them, that a Villain Behind the Scenes could walk in and say it was all a fakeout.
09 May 2007 at 8:48 pm
QuoteDidn’t know where else to post this, but let me say I’d love to hear a FCBD wrap up show. You mentioned it in the first half of the Spidey-Cast, so I thought I’d bring it up. I’d like to know how the day went, and as a small publisher, what stuff worked and what didn’t, so that I can better participate next year.
10 May 2007 at 8:42 am
QuoteWe’ll probably talk about FCBD at least a little bit. I will tell you that anecdotally, I’ve got at least three new converts to Love & Capes based on giving that out on the day.
10 May 2007 at 3:19 pm
QuoteThat’s great, Randy! Let me know if I can do anything to help out.
10 May 2007 at 6:11 pm
QuoteI just listened to the second part of the podcast. Random thoughts:
- Romita, Sr. is probably the most iconic of the Spider Artists, but my currently working favorite is Ringo. He gets the fun of the character that Marvel seems to be trying to wring out of it.
- Losing the secret identity is HORRIBLE. If Marvel ever asked me how to fix it (and they won’t) I’d cure Captain Mar-Vell of cancer now that he’s in the present. That way he’d never die of cancer and the resulting change in the timeline would allow them to change anything they wanted… Peter getting married, Iron Man becoming a fascist, Cap becoming a whiner… all of it, fixed to whatever they want.
But then again, that’s just me.
14 May 2007 at 9:13 am
QuoteWhat up with the weekly podcast? Is the Panteon curled up in fetal position after seeing Spider-man 3?
14 May 2007 at 9:00 pm
QuoteIt’s coming soon. We recorded as usual, but got busy with stuff that prevented putting it up on Sunday (it’s new usual release day). Should be up either late tonight or tomorrow at the latest.
14 May 2007 at 9:32 pm
Quoteok, so I’m a strong vote for the 2 hour fortnightly podcast. Like someone else said, it’s kind of odd that you end the conversation halfway through and we have to wait a week for the conclusion (and one of the first comments made in Podcast 24 was a reference back to an unspecified “earlier” comment from someone on the panel that was for us a week ago and not so easy to follow as it would have been for you guys in the room. So I say give me 2 hours of unadulterated Pants goodness, and if you put a break point in at the hour, those who only want to listen to an hour at a time can stop there and listen to the second half the next week- that way everyone’s happy, surely…!
As for Spidey, I’m like some on the panel who like the character but have only drifted in and out of his books, which I’ve found VERY erratic in quality over the 15-20 years that I’ve been reading comics.
Untold Tales was a huge favourite of mine. I also loved the Tangled Web issue that Kaare Andrews did, featuring Electro and Spidey fighting in a kid’s apartment. (Speaking of Kaare Andrews, you guys foreshadowed that you were going to discuss Reign, and it sounded like you had some major criticisms, but I don’t think you ever got around to discussing it on the podcast… Or am I just forgetting?)
Anyway, my all-time favourite Spidey comic actually didn’t feature Peter Parker at all - it was Peter David’s run on Spiderman 2099 (which was almost the entire run, until Marvel started really screwing with it right at the end). Miguel O’Hara had a cool costume, an excitingly strange but familiar world, and a great supporting cast. Best of all, the series had an engrossing serial quality where you were always left wondering where the plot would go next (which might explain why, when I dipped into a couple of individual issues not so long ago, I didn’t like it nearly as much as back at the time of its run, when I was living Miguel’s life with him from month to month…).
Anyway, another great podcast guys. Thanks.
16 May 2007 at 6:07 am
Quote