I think Omni-man (from invincible) is a great villain. I would’ve liked you guys to talk about villains outside marvel/DC mainstream, or talk about Deathstroke and/or Apocalypse, who are two of my favourites. deathstroke cuz of his style e.g. the fight against the justice league in identity crisis, and apocalypse has some real good time-traveling stories. Sentinals are cool too.

Outside of superhero books Saint-of-killers (preacher) and that yellow b*stard (sin city) are terrifying villains. I also wanted you to talk about heroes fighting each other more civil war or batman/superman conflicts, but I guess they’re only short podcasts and you ran over anyway. stilll thouroughly enjoyable. but yeah omni-man…think about it.

Keep in mind that this is part one of two parts. We talk about indy villains in the second one.

Outside of superhero books Saint-of-killers (preacher) and that yellow b*stard (sin city) are terrifying villains. I also wanted you to talk about heroes fighting each other more civil war or batman/superman conflicts, but I guess they’re only short podcasts and you ran over anyway. stilll thouroughly enjoyable. but yeah omni-man…think about it.

To me the Joker works because of what he lacks, restraint and morality. He’s the ultimate nihilist. He’ll kill you and smile as he twists the knife.

I also love the Reverse Flash (both of them), because he’s one of the few villians who when he shows up, things really do change for the Flash. He killed Barry Allen’s wife. Barry killed him, went to trial, etc. (Not many arch villians have the distinction of actually driving the Hero to kill.) He was the symbolic step Wally West needed to take to become the Flash in his own mind. Great stuff. And the new one is really great too.

And a major shout out to the Rouges in general. Gotta love a bunch of people that really boil down to just being thugs. Kind of refreshing. Why rob a bank? Because thats where the money is.

That love ends with Arcade, though. I know he has a strong following here but he always came across as a Joker wannabe with a Rube Goldberg style. He is an assassin hired by one person to kill another…but instead of, as Scott Evil noted, just shooting them, he builds a unique theme park to kill someone. Which is a fun idea for Silver Age or earlier but to me was a bad fit for later comics. Claremont’s fun with him was okay back in the day but I thought it was a weak link between the cooler Savage Land stories and the Proteus stories (and then of couse Hellfire Club, Phoenix, etc.).

Good discussion on styles of villains, too. Are they only usable by one hero (like Red Skull and Cap or Loki and Thor) or more universal (Dr. Doom or Kingpin). One style villain not discussed would be the “Institutional” villain. A bad guy that is, in fact, a group of bad guys. Take The Brood, for example, or Skrulls. Hydra or The Hand. Again, I think more along the lines of Marvel than DC. I honestly can’t think of many institutional villains in DC. Legion of Doom doesn’t count!

I agree, Galactus is more “force of nature” than bad guy. I would have agreed with the “only two storylines” available to him until the recent Annihiliation, which made him interesting again. Sure, it involves him eating stuff or needing to eat stuff but including this huge cosmic storyline where he is merely another character and not the “Big Bad” was cool. C’mon, it was the first time I was cheering for Galactus to kick some bad guy ass.

Speaking of that, my history with Annihilus is kind of weak. He used to be a 2nd tier FF bad guy, right? Do you think this jump to universe-spanning bad guy worked or didn’t work? Personally, I liked it but I wonder what long time fans of FF might think of it.

I also really love Arcade (possibly my favorite Marvel villain of all time), especially in the Claremont X-Men stories. Sometimes he gets mischaracterized as a Joker/Toyman type of guy who’s childish and just likes games and gimmicks, which is a shame, since he’s really more of a slick, arrogant, playboy-ish type who is cold-blooded brutal. The whole Murderworld thing isn’t just because he likes toys and theme parks - it’s because he’s a sadistic bastard who wants to see the heroes suffer.

I second this–Arcade is one of my favorite villains as well. Madcap is another of my all-time Marvel favorites, even if he is more of a goof than anything….

Unfortunately, many of my favorite villains were semi-ruined due to over exposure in the 90’s. Villains like Thanos, Deathstroke, and yes, even Lobo, were much cooler before they were used to death.

Not to say that villains can’t be used on an extended basis. I loved Ostrander’s Suicide Squad run, but I think that worked partially because it was a large cast of villains that would occasionally change. Thunderbolts would fall into that category too.

One villain that I always thought was underrated was the New Mutants villain Magus. The dude could tear stars apart and if he even touched you, you were hosed.

Aw, don’t tell me I’m the only fan of hockey-mask Taskmaster!

Nope, Tomas, you are in fact not the only fan of the hockey mask rendition of the Taskmaster, as it’s my favorite look for the character. It has the whole “I’m a ninja” thing going for it, and for a guy who’s powers allow him to mimic any martial arts or fighting ability that he sees, the look really works.

As for the Shade being a cool villain…Damn, he was very cool, especially in James Robinson’s Starman and in the Justice League stuff on Cartoon Network.

Back on topic: though I have many favorite villains (Lex Luthor, Magneto and the Shade, to name a few), I agree that the best villain (as in, the best at being a villain) has to go to Doctor Doom. Like you guys said, he can take on anyone and put up a good fight. Well, except Squirrel Girl, but that’s a given.

But if you’re of a mind to read some good Iron Man stories where he’s the hero, not some arrogant jerk, check out the run by Denny O’Neil, or either of the runs by Bob Layton. It’s as close as anyone gets to a definitive Iron Man, and there you’ll find a Tony Stark who is far more human and heroic than the arrogant hero characterization that any number of “two arcs and then I’m done” writers have turned him into.

How’s “Armor Wars” in that regard? I’d ask about “Demon in a Bottle” too, but I have the feeling he’s not portrayed too favorably in that one

I also really love Arcade (possibly my favorite Marvel villain of all time), especially in the Claremont X-Men stories. Sometimes he gets mischaracterized as a Joker/Toyman type of guy who’s childish and just likes games and gimmicks, which is a shame, since he’s really more of a slick, arrogant, playboy-ish type who is cold-blooded brutal. The whole Murderworld thing isn’t just because he likes toys and theme parks - it’s because he’s a sadistic bastard who wants to see the heroes suffer.

When you put it that way, Arcade really does seem like a creepy dude. Stupid suit notwithstanding.

I’ve never been able to take Mordru seriously since I saw Gabriel Dell play him in the short-lived 1979 live-action show Legends of the Superheroes. The show was awful, and Mordru was dressed in his old half-robe wizard outfit. The worst thing, though, was that he chased them around on a jetski. Powerful wizard needing a jetski.

Sorry, can’t be afraid of him anymore.

Oh, please, his rendition of “These Are a Few of My Favorite Things” is particularly scary.

The 70’s show, by the way, was two specials, not a series, so it wasn’t technically “short-lived”, although it was never reaired. And, I know it was horrible but it’s such a part of my childhood (thanks to actually taping it on an early VCR) that I can’t hold a grudge against it.

Heck, that whole “Grundy hate swamp” thing with Ed McMahon still makes me laugh.

With that, I await the official notice of being banned from all further Comic Pants activities.

I also really love Arcade (possibly my favorite Marvel villain of all time), especially in the Claremont X-Men stories. Sometimes he gets mischaracterized as a Joker/Toyman type of guy who’s childish and just likes games and gimmicks, which is a shame, since he’s really more of a slick, arrogant, playboy-ish type who is cold-blooded brutal. The whole Murderworld thing isn’t just because he likes toys and theme parks - it’s because he’s a sadistic bastard who wants to see the heroes suffer.

And Mordru was always cool since the LSH was actually afraid of him. One time he got loose and the heroes went and hid in the 20th Century.

I’ve never been able to take Mordru seriously since I saw Gabriel Dell play him in the short-lived 1979 live-action show Legends of the Superheroes. The show was awful, and Mordru was dressed in his old half-robe wizard outfit. The worst thing, though, was that he chased them around on a jetski. Powerful wizard needing a jetski.

Sorry, can’t be afraid of him anymore.

As for weird villians, Ambush Bug was a bad guy when first introduced, and he was a lot of fun.

Composite Superman is one of my favorites, too. Just weird, and tres powerful with his having the powers of the LSH.

As for real villains I like…

Amazo always worried me when the JLA fought him. He had all their powers and was a pretty good foe. I like the V stripes better than the tank top, though.

Brainiac, especially as written in the JL cartoon, is a visually cool and interesting bad guy.

For Batman, I’ve always liked Two-Face, as he’s the dark side of obsession and was once Bruce’s friend, as well as Riddler, since it’s good for Batman to have someone he has to outTHINK.

And Mordru was always cool since the LSH was actually afraid of him. One time he got loose and the heroes went and hid in the 20th Century.

Second, a thought for a Rumble Pants fight, Flash Rogues vs. Iron Man Rogues. There are so goofy in terms of name and powers at times, but dangerous when written well.

Third, Sandman was a great villian to hero conversion that was changed and that screwed things up. He was awesome as a hero struggling, as a once villian training others that had done wrong, the encounters with Heroes he once fought was great. Miss that heroic William Baker, not liking the fact he was returned to Flint Marko.

My favorite villain ever is the Joker, with Dr. Doom and Magneto as runners up.

Love Taskmaster. Just the other day I was telling the guys about my favorite use of the character, where he was brought in to train John Walker in how to use Captain America’s shield, since his powers allowed him to exactly mimic how Cap threw it.

The question is, skull-face Taskmaster or hockey-face Taskmaster? While I have some issues with the garish original costume, I found the Udon-designed hockey-face Taskmaster dull.

Definitely skull-face. Just got a look at Udon’s version and didn’t like it. Old school taskmaster rocks

Sounds like you’ve never read any good Iron Man stories.

Not surprising, since almost none of Iron Man’s stories are in trade form, and the ones that are tend to be put out to back up the “Iron Man, Mechanical Super-Bastard” take that Marvel has decided to go with.

But if you’re of a mind to read some good Iron Man stories where he’s the hero, not some arrogant jerk, check out the run by Denny O’Neil, or either of the runs by Bob Layton. It’s as close as anyone gets to a definitive Iron Man, and there you’ll find a Tony Stark who is far more human and heroic than the arrogant hero characterization that any number of “two arcs and then I’m done” writers have turned him into.

I’ll have to check out the O’Neil and Layton runs on the series; I was never a big fan of Iron Man growing up, so the only time I read him was in the Avengers and his appearances in other books.

I still like Iron Man as a villain, though. After Civil War I think he’s damaged goods and could be a tragic villain along the lines of a Doctor Doom or Magneto, i.e., he uses morally questionable means to achieve what he imagines to be a greater good.

Marvel doesn’t have the balls to run with idea, though. To take an example: one month Magneto’s “good”, the next he’s “bad”. Enough already!