The first mature readers i read was watchman - i remember seeing that 11th issue? The one that’s all white but just a little shot of the butterfly under the glass. It was at a used bookstore - the kind that stocks as much dust as it does books. And they had a rack of comic books that consisted of whatever the guy had lying around - a real weird mix. It was one of those spiny racks so didn’t hold a lot and at that it was like 1/3 full. But one of the comics was that Watchman so I opened it up and looked through it and found it completely baffling. But intriguing enough that I picked up the trade, which I found a lot more accessible (I guess they assume by issue 11 of a 12 issue mini-series you pretty much already know what’s going on).

As near as I can tell it didn’t scar me, but I’m not sure if I would be the best judge of that, frankly.

To follow up on my previous comment, the first “mentally scarring” comic I read was the very first comic I read - the Spider-Man issue where Gwen Stacy dies.

You know, one of the more traumatic images in a comic I saw when I was younger was Alex Ross’ version of Gwen Stacy’s neck snapping in Marvels. To this day, that panel gives me chills.

When I read comics as a kid I think the most “mature” thing I read was an issue of Punisher. When I recently (2 years or so) got back into comics it was Frank Miller, Garth Ennis, Warren Ellis, etc. books that got me hooked.

That being said, I started to gravitate towards the mature reader comics pretty soon once I hit high school. A friend lent me Watchmen and V for Vendetta and I eventually got hooked on the proto-Vertigo books like Sandman, Animal Man, and Doom Patrol.

I never had any problem buying that stuff at my local comic store even though I looked way younger than my age. I have no idea if my parents even knew what was in the comics I was reading or if they would’ve objected if they did.

I’ll admit it’s a bit of a conundrum. Do you punish the teenagers that are mature enough to read a Vertigo book just to keep them out of the hands of those that aren’t? I certainly wouldn’t fault any retailer for not selling mature reader titles to those under the age of 18 in order to protect themselves. All it takes is one hysterical parent whose kid got hold of a Preacher trade to bring a heap of bad publicity on the industry.

The same goes for this situation. No matter how many people claim that “comics are literature” etc, as you guys pointed out, the parents felt the book was unsuitable for their daughter and it was a huge lapse in judgment on the teacher’s part to have given her the book in the first place.

I do feel that the situation could’ve been handled better by all parties involved though. Hopefully this situation will lead to more structured and proper debate in the future.

I remember reading Sandman when I was 13 and seeing the film “I Spit on Your Grave” when I was about 8, which is two opposite ends of the spectrum in the level of maturity. I’ll admit I’m a mess, but a well adjusted mess. Would I allow my children to experience the same thing? Who knows, the world climate may be different in 10-15 years.

My personal feelings aside, this seems to be a situation of both sides acting with poor judgment, whether it be the father or the teacher in question. I’m sure they would all just want this to go away.

I thought it was quite interesting how you looked at your own childhood experiences of adult material. I think topics along this line could be great podcasts - things that cover the boundary between reading comics as a kid and as an adult. As you all said, the very nature of being a visual medium opens up these types of questions.

* What was your most emotional/uncomfortable moment from reading comments as a kid and adult

* What comics should be part of a school’s reading list

And as you often allude to - how “adult material” can hurt a story - I’m thinking of Randy’s past DC/Marvel Adventures comments.

And finally…glad to see Dave F back in the gang - always dig the conversations more when he’s in the mix.

I’m usually right on board with you, but in this case I find myself on the other side. Not really in the specifics of the case–the guy clearly made a mistake in giving the comic to the kid. But what if he did know the student better? Or what if he did check it out with the school first? It’s clearly not more “adult” than the other material on the reading list. Would it be okay in either of those situations?

The other problem that I keep coming back to, is the idea that a teacher can’t use any materials that are not on the reading list in their classes. Is this the way that schools should be run? My experience in high school suggests that new material should be brought in, as needed. Especially when that material can engage students and potentially pique thier interest in more traditional literature.

And this is where comics being art/literature becomes relevant. If comics are literature–or forays into a new art form–then assigning them in a literature class is justifiable. They’re easier to relate to, and introduce relevant themes for class discussion. Should they all be vetted by the school board before they be assigned? Or is there an age where we all agree that kids are ready to see adult themes rather than just reading them?

Of course, all this should be taken with a grain of salt. I’m not a parent myself, and I teach at the university level. So, my experiences are certainly toward one extreme over the other.

And, though it’s not-at-all relevant to the conversation, I would have loved being introduced to art comics at a younger age. It might have helped me kick the late 90s superhero habit even earlier, and got me reading what I do now. Of course, it’s an open question whether I was ready for them at the point. I think I was, but memory can be a funny thing.

Also, hope that didn’t come across as too over-the-top. I always enjoy these discussions, and I don’t want to start a flame-war.

It is always interesting to me how people equate extreme sex/violence with age-appropriateness. In my experience, this has always worked on more a more emotional level than a visceral level. In the right context, ‘Bambi’ can be way more traumatic than ‘Akira’ because ‘Bambi’ connects to a young mind on an emotional cute fuzzy bunny level before the death and destruction begins. Material like ‘Akira’ never seeks that sort of emotional connection before bringing on the visceral action.

Anyway, the first “Mature Readers” comic I read was probably Creepshow on the shelf at a B. Dalton’s, which was nowhere near as traumatic as Spider-Man and dead Gwen Stacy.

I remember when I managed a video store, we had guys coming in looking for ‘Faces of Death’ and extreme anime stuff because it was all “intesne” and it would “@#$%! you up.”

I always told them, “This film will not @#$! you up as much as ‘Bambi’ will.” And, to a person, they agreed with me.

Having finished the second half of the podcast, my general thoughts:

The first comic I read with a lot of violence in it was probably something like Spawn that I can’t recall, but probably the first comic I read with nudity was an issue of “Heavy Metal” (to this day the only issue I’ve ever read). I think I was about eight at the time and knew it wasn’t for me, but it did kind of take away the shock value of all the adult themes I’d later find in Watchmen, which I read just a year after.

But yeah, I’m definitely in the camp that says parents definitely have a big say in deciding what’s good for their kids and what isn’t. The teacher may not have had time to talk to the parents directly, but he probably should have at least asked the kid to ask her parents if they thought it was okay for her to read Eightball. Maybe he should have given all the students in that class a sort of printed notice to take home and show their parents saying “the following selections in this assignment have explicit material/sexual themes/etc.”, to run it by them before they picked which selection they wanted to read. Otherwise, I can only see a bit of arrogance involved on the part of the teacher thinking he’d immediately know what’s best for the kid.