Comic Pants Podcast #42
This week, Dave Farabee, Nick Budd, David Martindale (D3), Dan Grendell and Randy Lander, along with special guest Jason Murphy, are talking about forgotten gems. Specifically, miniseries and short-lived series that were great but died before their time, or maybe never got the recognition they deserved. It’s eBay and back issue bin diving time after this podcast, as the Panteon digs into the nooks and crannies of their collection for books that even they might have forgotten about. This is one of our longer podcasts, but rather than break it into two parts, we’re running the whole thing and then taking next week off.
As always, commentary is welcomed and encouraged. Let us know what you thought of the podcast, and if you have suggestions for future podcast topics, leave us a comment or write in to the show! Please drop us a line to give us some questions or comments for the next show.
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Used Levelator on this podcast. Let me know how the volume levels are. Nick seems to be a bit easier to hear, and the music is a bit less deafening it seems to me, but let me know what you think.
22 Oct 2007 at 1:37 am
QuoteUsing my magic machine, I’d kill “New Avengers” for the reasons cited in the podcast, the primary one being that characters I like/love are being misused and abused, as well as monopolized, by Bendis.
As far as forgotten or underappreciated gems, “Unstable Molecules” (a mini from the early 00s), “Night Falls On Yancy Street” (a mini featuring The Thing), “DP7″ from the 80s, “Batman” issues 452 to 454 (Dark Knight Dark City, a creepy story arc with supernatural overtones) by Peter Milligan and Kieron Dwyer, “Beware the Creeper” by Jason Hall and Cliff Chiang, and an issue of “Batman Chronicles” by Paul Pope featuring a gay, Jewish Batman (Baruch Wane) fighting Nazis in 30s Berlin, to name a few.
The Lansdale/Truman “Jonah Hex” series were great, too.
22 Oct 2007 at 6:41 am
QuoteI’m ashamed at the number of long boxes I have. Before my move in 2005, I had well over 35. I gave away/sold many, but am still only down to 22. I plan on giving away others to trick or treaters next week, see how that goes.
As for two you missed on forgotten gems:
Joe Kelly’s Deadpool: probably the best he (Kelly & DP) ever were. Many ansilary things in this book (behind the scenes, wrap up page, director’s “commentary”) that have become common place in today’s comic world seemed groundbreaking back in 1996/1997. I think only the first arc is collected but out of print.
Major Bummer: Fun, fun, fun series from John Arcudi & Doug Mahnke came out around the same time as Young Heroes in Love. Pretty sure it can be found easily in single issues but not collected anywhere.
22 Oct 2007 at 8:13 am
QuoteJoe Kelley’s Deadpool was brilliant. The issue where he goes back and intersects with Spidey’s origin story was madcap and inspired.
22 Oct 2007 at 11:56 am
QuoteI have two, nearly full, long boxes and probably another longbox worth of books that I have separated and ready for ’sale’ (I’ve been planning eBay one-cent sales for nearly a year but I haven’t pulled the trigger). One thing that makes it easier for me to get rid of singles is that I do rebuy stories in collections, but I also download scans of the stuff I buy. I live in the gray area.. dling scans of stuff I bought.
levelator. i started listening and the volumes seemed better between the music and voices, so I wondered if it was the levelator. So I would say it sounds better.
Kill a book or Save a book. Save Testament. If we have 20,000 people, then divide them into groups of 5,000 to save 4 Vertigo books!
Gems. I gotta say, it is tough to keep track of all your recommendations through out the netcast. I listen at work and try to multitask. Same for other netcasts where you discuss lists of things.. I know it’d take time, but it’d be nice to have lists in the show’s blog post.
I don’t have any hidden gems since I am new to the scene, yo. The stuff I get is mainly in print or recent enough to not be that hidden.
D3 and his dinosaur comics; nice call back.
Mr. Murphy, Avatar Press has published some good, entertaining stories. “303″, “Chronicles of Wormwood”, the Apparat singles, “Black Summer”, “Doktor Sleepless” and “Crecy”. And isn’t “The Unfunnies” going to finish up this year?
22 Oct 2007 at 12:08 pm
QuoteGreat podcast, enjoyed the addition of Mr. Murphy, a fresh face (or voice, rather) and its nice to hear you guys have even more fun than usual (and a whopping 90 minutes of it too, made my commute just fly by)
22 Oct 2007 at 12:25 pm
QuoteAudio levels were nice and even this time around. Thanks for the extra effort, D3!
My forgotten gem is Tekno Comics’ “Mr. Hero.” It was a series about an old robot who used to box in an 1800’s magician’s act. He’s then rebuilt by a struggling street magician in the 1990’s, and they get into all kinds of wacky adventures.
Actually, I seem to remember all of Tekno’s stuff being pretty fun, and you could probably pick up all the titles for a song.
As for saving or killing a book, I’d probably save American Virgin, because I’m loving it and I really do think it could go for another couple of years. Although I wouldn’t mind seeing new Avengers off the shelf…of course, I pretend NA doesn’t exist and just read Marvel Adventures Avengers (thanks to the Panteon for recommending the MA stuff so highly. I picked up a few of the cheap trade…things at Target, and I’m REALLY digging it)
22 Oct 2007 at 9:27 pm
QuoteGreat pick with Batman: the Gauntlet Randy. I got that book for Christmas by accident one year (I asked for Infinity Gauntlet) and was extremely pleased with my mother’s mistake.
A few obscure books I remember enjoying when I was younger (though i’m not sure how much i’d like them now) are Peter David’s Captain Marvel, Green Goblin, and Slingers. Oh and Morrison’s Marvel Boy was freaking awesome. And finally Joe Casey’s X-Men: Children of the Atom, probably my favorite take on the X-Men’s early years.
I’d use the magic machine to save/resurrect Nextwave, but I would need it to split Stuart Immonen into 2 people so he could still draw Ultimate Spidey.
22 Oct 2007 at 11:25 pm
QuoteWritten by Evan Dorkin, art by Dean Haspiel, and completely and totally awesome. Nice pick. I *loved* this mini, it was my favorite miniseries of that year. Wish Marvel would trade it up, like they did “Unstable Molecules” (which had nice Guy Davis art).
Got both of these. That Batman story was the same timeframe as the one Nick and I were talking about, the Alan Grant/Chuck Dixon years, and Milligan’s occasional arcs were little weirdness injections that didn’t *always* work, but when they did, they were really cool. Dark Knight Dark City was one that worked.
I liked Beware The Creeper, mostly because I loved Chiang’s art.
Was this the one reprinted in Batman Year One Hundred? If so, I clearly need to pick up that trade and give the whole thing a re-read.
I like it, have the whole run. Marvel should really trade that up too, actually.
Another ’90s DC experimental book, too. Rumor from Rich Johnston has it that AIT/Planet Lar are reprinting the whole thing. It’d be nice if it were in color, not sure it’ll work in B&W.
I can’t speak for everybody, but I still have my notes, so here’s my list:
*Challengers of the Unknown by Steven Grant & John Paul Leon, 18 issues
*Primal Force by Steve Seagle & various, 14 issues
*Xero #1-12 by Priest & Chriscross
*Young Heroes in Love #1-18 by Dan Raspler & Dev Madan
*The Abnett & Lanning Legion of Superheroes
*Human Defense Corps
*Metamorpho by Mark Waid & Graham Nolan
*Elektra: Glimpse & Echo by Scott Morse
*Batman: The Gauntlet
*JLA: Superpower (half-remembered recommendation)
*JLA: Secret Society of Superheroes #1-2
*Jonah Hex by Lansdale & Truman
*Foolkiller #1-10 by Steve Gerber
There may have been a few others, but that’s most of mine.
23 Oct 2007 at 1:39 am
QuoteGotta admit, I was surprised JLA: Superpower was mentioned. Not that I thought it was bad (I quite liked it), but it came out a while ago and not many people mention it.
Some forgotten gems I’ll add into the mix are Tim Truman’s Hawkworld miniseries, Bill Rosemann’s Deadline (I think Guy Davis did the art?), Tom Peyer’s Hourman series and Archie Goodwin and Walt Simonson’s Manhunter (something about the Manhunter concept attracts quality, I suppose ;))
Strange as it may sound, I think Earth X may end up becoming a forgotten gem. No one really talks about it anymore, it’s hardly referenced in present-day Marvel (as opposed to Ross’ DC epic Kingdom Come, which to this day continues to seep into the DCU) and the version of Aaron Stack current readers are most familiar with is Warren Ellis’ “fleshy ones” version.
23 Oct 2007 at 3:07 am
QuoteJust listened to the bit about Elseworlds and I think that would be a great idea to put a series of trades out of some classic Elseworlds. Whether they’d make it into those volumes, I have a couple of personal favorites:
-JLA: Act of God. I’ve ALWAYS wanted to read this and I seem to recall Randy giving it some high praise when it first came out. The superheroes all lose their powers permanently. I can’t recall anything else about it except for a great moment for Steel at the end of the first book (3-book series).
-One year in the 90s, DC did a gimmick of publishing all of their annuals as Elseworld stories. Most of them were pretty cliche, but there were some fun ones, like Kryptonians taking over Earth, the Batman pirate, etc. But the best one of all was a two-part one in the Action Comics and Superboy annuals. A giant alien invasion successfully takes over the world, leaving the Justice League to become a quasi-rebel group.
-Superman: The Dark Side. I could be biased for being a Kirby fan, but I loved this story. Superman lands on Apokalips instead of Earth and winds up being raised by Darkseid. Great stuff.
23 Oct 2007 at 11:26 am
QuoteMy list was pretty short:
Justice Riders
Abnett and Lanning’s Legion of Superheroes
Ruse
Alan Grant and Norm Broyfogle’s Detective Comics
Sleepwalker
Darkhawk
and one that I forgot to mention but definitely think it should go on my list would be The ‘Nam. The initial stuff was written by Doug Murray and drawn by Michael Golden but even after they left, the series remained fairly awesome.
23 Oct 2007 at 12:21 pm
QuoteNick - early Darkhawk was fantastic. The mystery of what was behind the helmet had me on edge when I was a kid.
23 Oct 2007 at 12:51 pm
QuoteI only have two longboxes, but four bookshelves of TPBs and HCs.
I would choose to save the old school Gotham Central series by means of making a Gotham Central television show.
I would have also saved BWS: Storyteller. Or, at least, kept BWS on Archer and Armstrong.
And, I know how people feel about the man himself, so bracket that and set it aside, but I really liked Byrne’s Next Men.
Tyrant would be a great series to see completed. Perhaps it exists in Hicksville.
-RT
23 Oct 2007 at 1:10 pm
QuoteRandy — now that you have it out and accessible, I would really like to borrow your Landsdale Johah Hex run. You’ve raved about it frequently to me and I’m dying to check it out.
23 Oct 2007 at 2:41 pm
Quote“”and an issue of “Batman Chronicles” by Paul Pope featuring a gay, Jewish Batman (Baruch Wane) fighting Nazis in 30s Berlin, to name a few.”
Was this the one reprinted in Batman Year One Hundred? If so, I clearly need to pick up that trade and give the whole thing a re-read.”"
Yeah, it’s in the Batman Year 100 trade (I forgot it was, so I had to go check). I need to check out Batman: The Gauntlet. It sounds good, sort of like a Robin Year Zero-type story.
I actually have the first issue of “The Doom That Came to Gotham”, but for some reason I never bought the 2nd and 3rd issues. I’ll have to track them down.
“Oh and Morrison’s Marvel Boy was freaking awesome. And finally Joe Casey’s X-Men: Children of the Atom, probably my favorite take on the X-Men’s early years.”
I thought Morrison’s Marvel Boy was great, and it had beautiful art work by JG Jones. Apparently there was never a sequel because of Bill Jemas (according to Morrison).
I liked Children of the Atom, too, and was surprised when Casey dropped the ball when he was writing Uncanny X-men.
“I would have also saved BWS: Storyteller. Or, at least, kept BWS on Archer and Armstrong.”
I liked Archer and Armstrong way back when, and BWS’s work in general. He also did some great fill-in work on Uncanny X-Men back in the 80s.
23 Oct 2007 at 2:48 pm
QuoteGreat podcast as usual. I’m already bracing myself for withdrawal for next week! D3–the sound levels were excellent–great work!
Some picks of my own:
Strikeforce Morituri–Marvel Comics, mid 80’s. Great story about soldiers who agree to undergo a treatment that will give them superpowers but will cause them to die within a year. They need such soldiers in order to fight an alien menace. Very cool book.
GI Joe Special Missions–Does this count? I thought these stories were as good as the main book….
Louise Simonson’s run on Power Pack–I love kids as superheroes, and this was done so well. It’ll never happen, but how about an Omnibus of this stuff?
The Defiant Universe comics, particularly Warriors of Plasm, Dark Dominion and The Good Guys (another fantastic “kids with powers” book)–I’m a huge Jim Shooter fan and this universe was shaping up to be every bit as good as the Valiant Universe was before he left. This was a tightly integrated universe done right (maybe for the last time).
I’ll probably think of others…
23 Oct 2007 at 4:12 pm
QuoteAmen to that!
Also, speaking of Dark Horse legends books maybe this doesn’t count either but Concrete is criminally underappreciated as well…
23 Oct 2007 at 4:16 pm
QuoteYou guys kinda glossed over it, but I really liked Scare Tactics… even if it seemed to loose it’s way as the series went on… I am waiting for someone to revive it for vertigo as a horror punk comic…
23 Oct 2007 at 4:18 pm
QuoteI really enjoyed Dark Dominion. That concept could really be retooled, retweaked, or simply re-presented and with the right push, could be a viable comic, TV show, or movie.
23 Oct 2007 at 4:39 pm
QuoteIf I could save one comic it would definately be Gotham Central. I know it had a great run and a pretty good ending, but I loved the series noir sensibilities so much I want more. Well, I would want more if Brubaker and Rucka would right it.
I don’t know of any series I would like to get rid of, maybe Countdown, but at least that has a scheduled ending.
As for stuff I would put in trade, how ’bout some Jim Starlin Warlock and Captain Marvel. To my knowledge there is only one collection of Captain Marvel out there. You listening Marvel?
23 Oct 2007 at 4:44 pm
QuoteJeez, I can’t believe I have more long boxes than any individual Panteon member. The Levelator effect was a bit odd. It seemed to help the volume issues, but it made the background noises much more apparent. Overall, I guess I prefer it with Levelator than without.
As I mentioned in the comments a couple of podcasts back, I loved DC’s Forgotten Realms comic (and to a lesser extent the AD&D comic). It’s too bad they’ll never be reprinted. I also second the Panteon props to Ostrander’s The Specter and Lansdale’s Jonah Hex. Cross Gen had a lot of fun books. I especially enjoyed Negation, Way of the Rat, and Route 666.
As for my own picks:
*L.E.G.I.O.N. ’89 & ’90 - Maybe Invasion wasn’t the greatest crossover, but I really dug this spin-off book. The quality did dip after the first few years, but I stuck around for the whole run.
*Elementals – Really just the Bill Willingham stuff since the book turned to shit after he left.
*Next Men – Yes, John Byrne is a douche-bag, but this was the last thing he did that I really enjoyed.
*21 Down – Probably one of the more intriguing books Wildstorm put out, so of course it got cancelled quickly.
The break topics were pretty thought provoking this time around. I personally suspect that the use of digital formats may solve the “out of print” problem down the road, but that’s probably decades off.
I’d love to kill New Avengers just to send a message to Marvel editorial that their stupid spin-doctoring-let-Bendis-phone-in-any-old-shit-he-wants-to style of running the company is ruining their characters. On the whole, I guess it would be better to save a book than wreck one. I’d probably add the readers to Stray Bullets just to entice Lapham into doing new issues.
23 Oct 2007 at 5:45 pm
QuoteI’ve got a bunch of those annuals, and there were definitely some good ones in there. The ones you mention (that Superboy/Action 2-parter and Batman pirate) are definitely two of my favorites.
Jason, I’m going to stop you there. Sure, I’m flattered… maybe even curious… but just because I took it out doesn’t mean I’m all ready to use it. It was just… wait, what?
Ohhhh. *That* Yeah, Dan has that at the moment, I think. Once I’ve got it back, I’ll loan it to ya.
I keep hoping Marvel will reprint it. There were even rumblings of a SciFi channel miniseries based on it, and I thought that might get these books reprinted. See, I’ve read a lot of it, but as with The Nam, these were coming out when I was a poor teenager, and to save money, a friend and I would buy different comics and then read each other’s copies. So I’ve read a lot of both The Nam and Strikeforce, but I own none of it.
And in some cases better. Yeah, it’d be nice to get the Special Missions stuff reprinted.
I dug what I read of Power Pack as well. Would love an Essential.
I liked what I read of this, but I missed a lot of it. With Legion continuity having changed so frequently, I’d be surprised if we see L.E.G.I.O.N. ever reprinted. But then again, they did show up in Rann/Thanagar War…
23 Oct 2007 at 10:25 pm
QuoteTotally agree with you, Randy, with the annuals. Unfortunately, much like DC’s annual events like that, some were good but most were stinkers.
Oh, and books that are direly underrated and died before their time? My opinion here, naturally:
-Manhunter. Not the current one, though that one was great, if not better. No, I have a soft spot for the Manhunter series that came out after Zero Hour, at the same time as Starman. It was one of the first books I picked up of my own volition (got started with comics around the time of Death of Superman, Zero Hour was my first “event”, so I picked up some #0’s that I ordinarily wouldn’t). It had this great, creepy supernatural feel to it. Though I don’t know if it pissed all over the old Manhunter stuff. Still, even if it was very short lived, it was nice to see that Manhunter again in the new series.
-Fate: Again, another Zero Hour book. Though, it did well and had a pretty respectable run (20-30 issues?). I’m not sure how many look back on it fondly now, though.
-Always going to agree on things like Chase and Young Heroes in Love.
Collection-wise, my collection is mostly trades and hardcovers. It’s dwindled considerably, from two and a half bookshelves (and more) down to maybe a bookshelf and a half. Long boxes, I’ve got four long ones and one short one. One long filled with just Superman and Superman related (Superboy, Steel, etc), another of Bat-family (Nightwing, Robin, Batman), then misc DC for the other two and Marvel for the short box (I mostly get trades for Marvel).
You know, I really wish DC would put the trades out of Abnet/Lanning’s Legion. Are they the same guys that also did the Legion plague or something that came before Legion Lost? I remember there was a creative team on for several years that both Randy and his former cohort from the Fourth Rail both went on about quite a bit.
23 Oct 2007 at 11:30 pm
Quotemy magic machine would kill any derivative hero that somehow has their own title: she-hulk, spider-woman/ girl, young avengers, new x-men, supergirl, superboy etc.
alternatively i’d save nextwave or global frequency
i’ve only been collecting for eight years, not really any time to forget gems…
24 Oct 2007 at 4:20 am
QuotePS, I am the first reviewer you have on iTunes (and I posted my review a long time ago). C’mon folks! Let’s get those reviews up. So far there are only three…
24 Oct 2007 at 5:13 pm
QuoteA few other late-90s DC books I remember fondly were Chronos and The Creeper:
http://www.comics.org/series.lasso?SeriesID=5733
http://www.comics.org/series.lasso?SeriesID=7099
Haven’t read either in years, so I can’t say if they hold up, but I liked them quite a bit at the time.
26 Oct 2007 at 1:45 pm
QuoteThis is going to be a strange assortment of books.
Godzilla - Marvel had the rights at this point and for whatever reason, an incontinuity Godzilla is just goofy enough to be fun.
All-Star Squadron - Solid WWII superhero fare written by Roy Thomas
Infinity Inc - The first arc had art by Jerry Ordway and was soon followed by Todd MacFarlane, who’s stuff back then was very original.
Roger Stern - His runs on the Avengers and Dr. Strange may still be my favorites.
Skreemer - I had never seen anything like this series by Peter Milligan and Brett Ewins.
Stray Toasters by Ted McKeever - I am still not sure about the story, but I loved the art.
Machine Man by Barry Windsor Smith
If I could resurrect one book, it would have to be Miracleman. That would be a very magic machine!!
26 Oct 2007 at 8:28 pm
QuoteDH just stole a few of my ideas (Machine Man, All Star Squadron) but, in terms of series that I don’t think are in trade, I’d recommend:
- Mazing Man. Bob Rozakis and Stephen DeStefano created one of the most unique books of the 80’s. Find it, read it, you can’t not like it.
- The first 50 issues or so of Fury of Firestorm the Nuclear Man. Bright and fun 80’s superhero stuff.
- Hardware, Icon, and Static from Milestone. Static ended badly when the creative team shifted, but otherwise, great, great comics.
As for what book I’d save or cancel… I can’t think of any I’d save off-hand. I’d like to cancel the next hottest Hollywood Writer/Hot Artist book that runs late or has to shift its story into an annual. Why? Because if you’re going to keep doing a book as a monthly, make it monthly. If you can’t hit your deadlines, move on to graphic novels and less time-critical projects, and leave the monthlies for people who can hit them.
27 Oct 2007 at 7:14 am
QuoteI liked the run of Firearm by James Robinson from Malibu Comics - Ultraverse. I remember that being quite good at the time, although I wonder if it still holds up. The “Rafferty Saga” was pretty good.
Deadenders by Ed Brubaker and Warren Pleece. Although I just looked on Amazon and it’s still available.
I’d have to second the Milestone Line. I’d love to see those issues recolored in a nice TBP. I remember the colors on the original series being pretty bad, even worse than comics being published at the same time. Some of the art didn’t suffer too much from the muddy coloring (John Paul Leon) but it would be nice to see the ChrissCross art on Blood Syndicate recolored.
Comics that could be forgotten gems in the future.
Blue Beetle - I really like this series but could totally see this slipping through the cracks.
The Order - Another great series but what happens when the Initiative storyline /theme wraps up. Does this series have a reason to exist beyond the current status quo.
29 Oct 2007 at 10:42 am
QuoteI don’t mind Bendis, but not what hes doing now…..it doesn’t suit him at all….I really enjoyed Alias, Daredevil was quite good the parts I’ve read so far, and I liked the Pulse too, though I know a lot of people didn’t…..he doesn’t work when hes dealing with the big stuff, like world changing stuff…..he should be doing the smaller stuff, in the nooks and crannies of the universe….I am still looking forward to this Spiderwoman series hes supposed to be doing…..but I totally agree with you on his place in Marvel right now. It makes me veeeeerrrrry angry!
29 Oct 2007 at 2:40 pm
QuoteThe Essential Godzilla is still in print, and it is as awesome as you’d expect. Now if only Marvel could get the same one-time permission to do Essential Rom and Essential Micronauts.
Isn’t Stray Toasters actually a Bill Sienkiewicz book? I believe there was supposed to be a hardcover recently, but I don’t know if it ever came out.
The magic machine can influence readers, resolve creator feuds and solve licensing issues. The only thing it cannot do is stop Dan Didio from killing off DC characters, or Rob Liefeld from making empty promises and trashing his artistic betters.
You know, I would love to read this book. But I doubt we’ll ever see a trade, and I’m too lazy to go back issue diving these days, especially with stacks of “to read” stuff on my nightstand, desk and every other flat surface in the house.
I still have my collection of 95% of everything Milestone published, and it is indeed great comics. Icon in particular is genius work.
Right on. Show a little respect for the medium.
Btw, does anybody think that if there’s a writer’s strike in Hollywood, suddenly all these guys are going to be doing a lot more work in comics, and it’s going to become a lot more punctual as well?
I almost mentioned this one. The first trade is the only one that was ever done, the rest of the series (at least 10 issues, maybe more) remains uncollected.
29 Oct 2007 at 4:01 pm
QuoteGen 13/The Maxx - William Messner-Loebs and the reason for buying the issue is the art by Tomm Cokker. I love this guy’s artwork and his only problem is the godawful books he’s been stuck with over the years. I get the feeling he’s not a deadline kind of guy but when an issue comes out, it’s always beautiful.
Nomad Vol. 2- Fabian Nicieza and a variety of artists. This might suck now but I remember it being a really cool series that was very different from other books being published at the time. It was dealing with real world issues and was a riff (bad or good) on the Lone Wolf and Cub theme. It also featured artwork by Rick Mays, a criminally underrated artist as far as I’m concerned, towards the end of the run.
31 Oct 2007 at 3:07 pm
QuoteStray Toasters by Ted McKeever - I am still not sure about the story, but I loved the art.
Isn’t Stray Toasters actually a Bill Sienkiewicz book?
Stray Toasters is by Bill Sienkiewicz. I was thinking of Plastic Forks by Ted McKeever. All those darn kitchen utensils get me confused….
09 Nov 2007 at 8:52 am
Quote