Comic Pants Podcast #44
This week, Dave Farabee, Nick Budd, David Martindale (D3), and Randy Lander talk about DC’s Vertigo imprint, home of such titles as Preacher, Sandman, Y The Last Man, Fables, Losers and of course the soon to be late, lamented American Virgin. There’s been a lot of buzz in the blogosphere about Vertigo lately, and we talk about whether or not the clouds of doom and gloom some are casting are warranted or not. We also talk about the imprint itself, its history, its successes and failures and where we think it might be going (or maybe should be going) next. And as a reminder, you can check out first issues of many Vertigo series free online by checking out the Vertigo Number Ones website.
As always, commentary is welcomed and encouraged. Let us know what you thought of the podcast, and if you have suggestions for future podcast topics, leave us a comment or write in to the show! Please drop us a line to give us some questions or comments for the next show.
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The comment about a police drama would do well for Vertigo, well, I don’t know about that. While it’s not a Vertigo title but it’s more about the police and less on the capes, Gotham Central (while I loved it) didn’t not do so well. And I’m pretty sure, people who love GC are into Vertigo comics, unfortuntately, there’s not that many people buying the series.
About no well-known fantasy title on Vertigo, would Lucifer count? It went for 75 issues and received well by critics.
Anyway, what would I do to improve Vertigo, well, first have Gaiman write that Sandman mini and also bring in the previous writers who wrote hit titles in Vertigo and have them write new series. Writers like Garth Ennis, Grant Morrison and Warren Ellis. Have Brian K Vaughan write a new series after Y: The Last Man is finshed and Bill Willingham should just forget about writing mainstream DC, as the stuff he writes for Veritgo are interesting. How about bring in Matt Fraction to write a series? I think he’s suited for Vertigo and he’s not in a exclusive contract with Marvel. Now, he’s a weird suggestion, bring in Frank Cho to not only write but to draw a series so he can draw boobs and bare asses all he likes and he wouldn’t have editors telling him to cover it up. I’m sure, there are enough people out there that would buy it.
Even though Vertigo isn’t doing so well as before, I’m more worried for Wildstorm. Their multiple relauches failed, their ABC line is virtually no more (with exception of The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: Black Dossier) and Scott Dunbier who is a talent editor and has been there for a long time was fired. The only WS title I’m interested in lately is Ex-Machina and also, Desolation Jones but I haven’t seen any new issues for a while. Maybe, those titles should jump ship to Vertigo to strengthen their line. While WS focus more on are licensed titles like Heroes, WoW, etc. since that’s what they are doing lately.
Btw, Scalped is awesone. Yay! No one will be talking about it for a month. Sorry for the long post, as you can probably guess, I’m big Vertigo fan and if the imprint is cancelled, I would drop all DC titles except for All-Star Superman.
13 Nov 2007 at 7:37 pm
QuoteOh, I forgot to add in Andy Diggle to write a new series for Vertigo. He always writes great action scenes and recently, he wrote a great GA mini-series. His Batman Confidential wasn’t so great but not everyone can write a great Batman story.
Btw, are you guys going to do a podcost on Wildstorm? That is, if you guys haven’t done it already. While, I don’t like to see it go but I am more worried for WS than Vertigo. If one of those two would go, I think WS would be the one.
13 Nov 2007 at 8:04 pm
QuoteIf Vertigo has any problems I think (and you covered this) their last two sets of launches held no initial appeal. DMZ, Exterminators, Testament and American Virgin. And then Jack of Fables, Scalped, Army @ Love and Crossing Midnight. (Jack of Fables being the exception since it can grab the Fables crowd). Unless you are a big fan of one of the creators, the pitches all seemed limp.
In truth there is a lot of good stuff in there, but I think I only bought about 3 of those #1s - and I buy a lot of #1 issues to try a series.
After the book wre out for a while I tried many of them based on the buzz. But their pitches and pre-sale hype did not sell me on any of them.
I am also sure that their Trade program must hurt their single issue sales. More than any other publisher I buy in trades exclusively from Vertigo. Right now I am getting DMZ and 100 Bullets in trades only - and I never purchased a single issue of either of those series. I don’t know if that is good or bad for the imprint though. As a buyer and reader, I certainly see it as a strength.
My opinion is that the great Vertigo books are all so identified with their creators, that for the imprint to be considered at the top again, they just need another big success. I’m hoping that Northlanders will be it as I am pretty jazzed about that book. (But I thought your comments on the big editor defections might be telling. I hadn’t thought about that before.)
Current Vertigo Pull List (In Preference Order):
Fables
Y
DMZ
Faker
Jack of Fables
100 Bullets
Crossing Midnight
(Tried Loveless, Scalped, Exterminators and Testament - not my thing.)
Great Podcast!
13 Nov 2007 at 8:54 pm
QuoteDidn’t Transmet launch under the Helix imprint?
I think the first few Vertigo books included the Death series and Enigma.
13 Nov 2007 at 10:41 pm
QuoteTransmet launched with Helix, yes. Vertigo was launched with the Vertigo Preview in February 1993, and the first full-on Vertigo books were Death: The High Cost of Living in March, Sandman Mystery Theatre in April, and Sebastian O in May.
13 Nov 2007 at 11:52 pm
QuoteVertigo is definitely my favorite imprint in comics. Almost all of my favorite series that I am currently reading are published by them (although, i’m strictly trades with them, and many of the books i’m currently enjoying ended years ago, like the Losers. hell, i haven’t even finished Sandman yet). My favorite books of theirs at the moment are Y and DMZ. I definitely agree that DMZ is a tough pitch though. The premise didn’t initially grab me at all, and i only picked it up because the reviews were so great. Once i got to see the premise’s execution though, i was hooked. Oh and you guys hit the nail on the head with American Virgin. I read the first trade and couldn’t really get into it, mostly because i didn’t like the lead character.
14 Nov 2007 at 12:48 am
Quoteso i listened to about half the podcast and here are my initial feelings. sadly i have to agree with much that has been said. i like vertigo’s line alot, but at the same time, i find them reaching my to check out list. as in its not what i’m currently following. that is i really wanna check out Exterminators, American Virgin, Exterminators, Army @ Love, Scalped alot but i haven’t really yet. And i’m just checking out Jack of Fables now. but the success of that series, i don’t think needs to be worried about.
i hate to say it but it somewhat comes down to the trade vs single problem.
because to me, vertigo still currently has a great line of series but i’m not really sure what more you can ask other than putting out another series on the line of success as y, fables or even dmz. dmz may not be the big seller as those others but its still a hit, i think.
just my simple initial opinions =)
14 Nov 2007 at 2:26 am
QuoteOops, that’s what I get for commenting along the way before listening all the way through.
14 Nov 2007 at 5:54 am
QuoteScalped. I read that the “Casino Boogie” stories (second trade) is where the book really takes off. I read the first trade and I know it was good, but I wasn’t head over heels. I had a tough time following the jumps through time. But I am going to be getting the second book.
I presume you all have read Brian Wood’s continuing problems with the sales numbers that come from diamond. He gets residual checks that tell him precisely how many books DMZ sells. He says it’s healthy. So who knows what to think, right?
Testament. I love the art. But I also had the problem of understanding what the book was about. I got what the book was doing, retelling bible stories, but what was it about? But dammit, the art. I love how the gods were in the gutters and how they’d interfere with the real world in the panels. Peter Gross did the layouts, I believe. And it was really hard for me to let that book go. Rushukoff does say that they had enough time to write an ‘ending’, so I will be getting the rest of the trades.
Army @ Love. I read the first issue way back when, and read the first trade two weeks ago. I really liked it. I liked the fast and furious satire taking the marketing of the war to the next level. However, by the end of the trade, I wasn’t really sure what the book was about. I wasn’t exactly sure who the main characters were, who’s lives we were really going to explore. By the end, when I was thinking, “is this a love triangle story?” — it was odd for me to smoosh that, mundane concept, in with the new, firecracker satire.
What is Vertigo doing right? Producing great books and getting them trades.
What is Vertigo doing wrong? Using the direct market.
I would love it if Vertigo could guarantee me ~30 issue stories. Sell me 3 fat trades (more than 6 issues, please) that will live on my shelves forever.
The last video game I had fun with was Portal. My game of the year.
14 Nov 2007 at 10:19 am
QuoteAt the comic book panel of the Texas Book Festival a few weeks ago, Matthew Sturges (co-writer of Jack of Fables) said that the Vertigo trades sell about 3 or 4 times more than the individual issues.
It was a pretty interesting discussion because very few of the panelists talked about the comics themselves as much as they talked about the format of the books, i.e. what format sells more in bookstores vs. comic stores vs. libraries.
It turns out the manga format is way popular and artists like Terry Moore have had great success reformatting their comics into a smaller and thicker format.
Just throwing that out there.
14 Nov 2007 at 11:10 am
QuoteReading through people’s comments…my perspective is so different from some of them and it, I guess, explains at least a little as to why companies can’t manage to please everyone. DMZ and Scalped being hard titles to sell as a #1? Jeeze…those are the type of series that when they debut I’m thinking, ‘Man, Thank God, finally something new and potentially interesting to read.’ People need to be reading Scalped. It should definitely be becoming one of the new flagship titles for Vertigo. Unfortunately, I worry people have a misconception of it from the first few issues and its tone and that they’re not going to give a book they’d love the chance it deserves. How can someone love 100 Bullets but Scalped ‘not be their thing’ ? Obviously, people have the wrong picture of what that title is.
Depending on whom was writing it, I would almost certainly pick up a new Vertigo crime/detective type book. And no, I would never under any circumstances consider buying that Batman Confidential thing someone tried to suggest was interchangeable. Just because I follow Vertigo doesn’t mean I give DC the same amount of interest.
Y, DMZ, Scalped, Fables, Faker - have been regular reads for me. 100 Bullets has gone on a bit too long to maintain my interest, but it’s a good series. American Virgin is somewhat interesting, but covers subject matter that stopped being all that overwhelmingly relevant to me some time ago.
Vinyl Underground seemed exactly like the type of book I wanted them to start, but so far it’s not off to that great of an opening.
Things like Army@Love though, are a bit of a mistake. Where Vertigo and a lot of other publishers err, I believe, is that they forget the people reading those lines of books are often older which, by the way, means more than just that they can handle increased violence. For example, DMZ is almost too full of holes and gaping plot questions for me to take seriously, but gets enough done for me to be into it. But Army@Love? C’mon. I’m all for commentary on politics, the war, etc…and I understand the format and exaggerated nature of what they’re trying to do with that book…but frankly, it just makes me roll my eyes.
Northlanders looks good. That’s what they need, is more REALISTIC, intense, well written dramatic work. Basically - Give Brian Wood, BKV, Bill Willingham, Jason Aaron and maybe some unVertigo’d folk like Matt Fraction a couple of books a piece and just let them run friggin wild.
14 Nov 2007 at 11:20 am
QuoteVertigo do cover and logo design better than almost everyone though. Only Archaia can come close
14 Nov 2007 at 11:40 am
QuoteYou know, I’m sorta ashamed to say it, but as much as I was a Vertigo reader early on, I was reading Sandman from issue one, same for Sandman Mystery Theater and Doom Patrol (Probably my all time favorite comic book series), I’m not currently reading any Vertigo books. In fact I haven’t even paged through any as the concepts just haven’t grabbed my interest. My wife was reading Fables for a good while though she recently sorta lost interest and most of the trades sitting on my shelf and I have yet to crack one open.
As to what would get me reading Vertigo, probably something most would see as a step back, a return horror related stuff.
As to what book I’d do, and mind you I’m just spiltballing for funzies here, but I’d probably propose a series about the occult underground; sorta the “Sopranos” meets “Cast a Deadly Spell” meets “Ghostdog” to put in Hollywood pitch terms. You got your ensemble cast, this dysfunctional family of criminal occultist, maybe they’re old school and sorta on the way out as the new young turks of the occult underground rise up, you got infighting, you got conflicted characters, throw in weird magic based off of Jungian archetypes and the collective unconscious and stir well.
14 Nov 2007 at 12:47 pm
QuoteDespite being a comics reader who lilkes indie stuff as much as mainstream and a variety of genres, I’m not really a big fan of Vertigo.
It’s funny, for an imprint that seems to celebrate diversity and unique voices, everything they do kind of reads exactly the same. You guys touched on this a bit indirectly when you mentioned how everything is cynical in nature and the humor-based stuff has fallen to the wayside and I agree.
Not only is the stuff cynical, but I think it falls into a fairly boring definition of cynicism — one based in sulking, swearing, being the kid leaning against the wall, smoking cigarettes. Nobody likes that guy. You can be cynical and still have charisma, charm, and even joie de vivre — hell, look at 1970s cinema for proof.
As much as I enjoy 100 Bullets and Scalped, I’m not getting this sense from any recent Vertigo book that I’ve looked at, except for Fables.
14 Nov 2007 at 2:12 pm
QuoteHow can someone love 100 Bullets but Scalped ‘not be their thing’ ? Obviously, people have the wrong picture of what that title is.
This was sorta my comment, so I’ll respond. I assumed that I’d love Scalped actually. It did sound like something I’d be very interested in. I waited until the trade came out to try the series. I think the art, story and dialog are all strong, but it still didn’t grab me. I cannot really explain why, but there isn’t really anything there I want to go back to.
With 100 bullets, I didn’t like the first storyline (Dizzy’s intro) either. It was the 2nd storyline that grabbed. And while I like Azzarello’s dialog, concepts and the byzantine nature of the ongoing mystery - it is really Risso’s artwork that drives that book and keeps me coming back.
And when I say the pitches didn’t grab me, it is probably for two reasons. First most of the concepts in the last couple launches did not seem to have the clear high concept line that something like a Fables or Y did. The second is just simply the subject matter: American Politics (I’m Canadian), Sexual Taboos/cultural Differences and Bible Reinterpretation - the topic didn’t interest me so I waited to see what the buzz would be before buying.
It turned out that when I did finally try DMZ I loved it. But it was the buzz not the pitch that attracted me.
14 Nov 2007 at 5:34 pm
QuoteI was a fan of the Vertigo books before there was even a Vertigo, but my enthusiasm for the imprint is probably as low as it’s ever been. The only books I’m enjoying unreservedly are Fables and Jack of Fables. I’m just riding out Y –The Last Man and 100 Bullets until they end because I’ve come too far to give up now. The only other Vertigo books I’m getting are Vinyl Underground and The Exterminators and I wouldn’t exactly be heartbroken if either of those went away.
I don’t think the cancellation of American Virgin is really a portent of doom for the imprint any more than the cancellation of The Crusades or House of Secrets was. It seems to me that Vertigo has always had a few strong sellers, a few solid sellers, and a trail of dead books that never caught on. I don’t see the fast trade program as the source of Vertigo’s woes either. If their audience were all waiting for the trade, then most of the trades would sell equally well. The problem is not enough people are buying the singles or the trades with a few exceptions.
I don’t really have any quick fixes for the imprint. I do wonder if they may have fractured their fan-base too much by branching away from the weird horror/fantasy genres into just being the default place for all of DC’s adult comic books. I think the only way Vertigo is going to recapture some of its former luster is to have some sort of big event. Maybe they could have a bunch of big name creators like Gaiman, Morrison, and Ennis each come in and do a mini-series or graphic novel with the intent that each project would serve as a springboard for an ongoing series by a strong B-list creative team. Sort of what happened with Gaiman’s Books of Magic mini. Obviously, not all the readers who tried the first offering would transfer to the ongoing series, but they might retain enough to generate a few “hits” by Vertigo’s standards.
14 Nov 2007 at 5:45 pm
QuoteI agree with Big Tom Casual regarding the quality of Vertigo’s covers and I buy the individual issues on several titles because of this. James Jean on Fables and now *Brian Bolland* on Jack.
I can read reprinted TPBs of Doom Patrol, Invisibles and Animal Man - comics that I was too young to be buying at the time - and fawn over Bolland’s covers at the back. And then I can buy my new issue of Jack of Fables and think, yes, I’m in at the ground floor. I finally know how cool these books are and can buy them when they first come out, Brian Bolland cover and all.
The covers on 100 Bullets and Y The Last Man have been good too.
15 Nov 2007 at 12:46 am
QuoteWhile listening to the podcast, I wondered if you would mention Rich Johnston’s latest blurb in Lying in the Gutters, about the WB exec. forcing Vertigo to change their contracts to retain more media rights. I wonder if that has any influence on the quality of titles they’re producing. Maybe big name creators, or anyone with a real “blockbuster” pitch, don’t want to sign away too many of their rights.
As for future podcasts, I’m eager to hear the pantheon’s views on the new Marvel Comics digital archive service.
15 Nov 2007 at 1:45 pm
QuoteI agree with this. I don’t see what the big catastrophe is here. They still have a flagship book with Fables, some new contenders like DMZ, some promising stuff in the pipeline, and some underappreciated titles. They pretty much are what they have always been. Sure, maybe not at the peak of their popularity, but not bottomed out either. Continuing to develop new creators would seem to be the best route, if you look historically, at developing a new hit. I wish DMZ could be that hit, but you guys are probably right that it just doesn’t have the right formula.
During this podcast it occurred to me that, if Vertigo went away, it would be a major blow to my interest in comics. I don’t know when it became my “bread and butter” imprint, but that’s what it is.
15 Nov 2007 at 10:33 pm
QuoteHi, sorry if I’m late to the party, but I just finished listening to this podcast and I love Vertigo, so I thought I’d throw my hat into the ring… Here goes:
On format:
The singles aren’t selling. You can’t get rid of them from a retailer standpoint and it’s too risky for the average reader to plop down $19.99 or more for an unknown book. I think the answer to this is to drastically lower the prices of the singles to “Fell” or “Casanova” type levels. The market is moving away from singles… especially Vertigo readers. I’m a “wait for the trade” guy myself. Single issues should be what they call in the retail market “loss leaders.” You buy a couple to check it out and if you like it, you buy more expensive stuff. They get you in the door. If single issues were under $2 more people would be willing to try out a new series. If they liked it, word of mouth would spread and more people would buy it up both in single-issue format and/or trades. Also, if it were cheap enough people would be more inclined to re-buy the trade of a comic they’ve already gotten in single issues.
On Quality:
I love the HBO analogy and let’s continue to use that for a second: With a lot of HBO shows ending or being canceled, many people are saying the same things about HBO as they are about Vertigo. One of the problems facing HBO is that they no longer have the monopoly on cutting edge, smart TV. Channels like FX which has The Shield, Rescue Me, Damages, Nip/Tuck (which I don’t like), Showtime which had Dead Like Me, Dexter, etc. as well as the regular network channels are all starting to have smarter shows as well. HBO is no longer unique in having good quality TV. Yes, shows like the Sopranos and Six Feet Under, Deadwood are still amazing, but the competition has learned and is putting out a better product to compete with HBO.
The same thing is happening in comics. In the early/mid 90’s, Vertigo was really the only place to get smart non-superhero stuff. Today, you’ve got tons of Indy and smaller press companies putting out good comics. Image especially has moved away from its early 90’s roots and is putting out quality books. Same with Archaia, IDW, etc. Even Marvel with their Icon line. Who wouldn’t love Brubaker to be writing Criminal or anything, for that matter for Vertigo?
15 Nov 2007 at 10:39 pm
Quote(Continued…)
I don’t know what’s going on, by why isn’t Garth Ennis writing “The Boys” for Vertigo? Why isn’t Grant Morrison writing a new series? Why are none of Warren Ellis’s new comics for Vertigo? I haven’t read that many issues of it, but wouldn’t “Doktor Sleepless” attract the same crowd that “Transmetropolitan” did? What about “Black Summer?”
Why wasn’t Ex Machina a Vertigo book? Or for that matter Peter David’s Fallen Angel or Rex Mundi? Those would have been a perfect fit! Wildcats 3.0 should have been Vertigo too. Take all of ABC and make it Vertigo. Tom Strong, Promethia, Top 10, the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen!
This suggestion may be a bit drastic, but for a quick and dirty fix to Vertigo, I would love to see them raid Humanoids Publishing’s back library and reprint all their stuff and keep translating it. I know DC already tried this, but I think the Vertigo readers would really dig the Humanoids stuff. Look at how popular The Killer is now for Archaia. I think people are ready to read European comics. Imagine Vertigo reprinting the complete Metabarons (there’s your sci-fi!), White Lama, Technopriest, Sanctum or any of the other countless amazing graphic novels and albums that Humanoids Publishing put out that was either ignored by most comic readers or was never even translated into English! It’s a comic gold mine just sitting there untapped!
Here’s a link to their website. Check out their catalogue and tell me if they don’t have some interesting stuff: http://www.humanoids-publishing.com/home.php
15 Nov 2007 at 10:41 pm
Quote(Continued)
Authors I’d Love to See Writing for Vertigo:
Richard K. Morgan who wrote Altered Carbon, Broken Angels, and more. You want scifi? Read any of his novels and tell me he wouldn’t be able to write a kickass scifi comic!
Chine Mieville who wrote Perdido Street Station, Iron Council, The Scar. Mieville is a great nontraditional fantasy writer who is amazing at creating worlds. I would love to see what he could do with a comic.
Dan Simmons. Wrote Hyperion, Illium, Olympos, and more. You want you epic scifi? You got your epic scifi.
Neal Stephenson. Snowcrash, The Diamond Age, Cryptonomicon. It will never happen but I dream about him writing a comic book. Same with Steven Erikson who is writing the amazing fantasy series “The Malazan Book of the Fallen.”
Have someone adapt Jim Butcher’s Dresden Files for comics. The TV show was eh but the concept and novels are good and a great sandbox for the right writer to play around in.
I realize that by only buying tpbs I’m part of the problem. Blame me for American Virgin being cancelled, Scalped and DMZ not having great numbers but I can’t afford to spend money on single issues. They’re too damn expensive and I hate the format! Give me tpbs any day and twice on Sunday.
15 Nov 2007 at 10:54 pm
QuoteWe didn’t, but only because we recorded this a week back, before that column ran. I do wonder if that has had anything to do with City Lights not being produced, or Gaiman’s Sandman miniseries not getting a green light.
I agree with you on the notion of reducing price (and size, that’d be 16 story pages I believe) in order to make the Vertigo singles cheaper. Don’t think they’ll do it, but I bet it’d help.
I do want to say, though, that while you’re right in your assertions about singles, I think it’s almost entirely the Vertigo readers. Trust me, as a guy who bought a comic shop in time for the finale of Civil War, the launch of Dark Tower and Buffy, the death of Captain America, World War Hulk, etc. the single format is on the rise in terms of superhero/blockbuster comics. It’s the mid-range and smaller press who are taking the bigger hit in terms of format, I’d say we’ve got at least a few years (probably more) before the format shift happens for the big guys of the line.
And I’ll comment on the authors I know:
Did you read his Black Widow miniseries for Marvel a few years back? Pretty decent, as I recall.
As with William Gibson, yeah, it’ll probably never happen… but damn, how awesome would it be if it did?
I’ve got the first Dresden Files sitting on my “to read” novel pile, and I’ve heard nothing but good. The Dabel Brothers just hooked up with Del Rey to publish the Dresden Files comics, so these are coming.
16 Nov 2007 at 1:01 am
QuoteI’ve been a devoted Vertigo reader from day 1. I even have a full run of the Black Orchid ongoing series. Haven’t listened to the podcast, but some comments on comments…
Didn’t DC already try this and not renew the initial contract?
Dead on. Many folks seem to be favoring the notion of going back to the guys who were edgy 20 yrs ago — when in fact, Vertigo should be publishing titles that are edgy NOW. They seem to be hitching their wagon to Brian Wood, Jason Aaron and a Fables franchise that I assume appeals nicely to the B&N TPB-buying crowd. Not including BKV in that list b/c once he became a TV writer, his comic writing seemed to suffer — thus I don’t think it’s the right time to expect “edgy” from this guy and not just more of the same plodding stories. All his characters have always sounded the same anyway.
That said, if they want titles that don’t peak in sales with issue #1, series need to start being more accessible. I am loving several Vertigo titles right now, but I don’t see how anyone could pick up an issue of Exterminators, Testament or American Virgin and know what is going on. Sandman was a series that could be picked up from arc to arc without feeling like one was missing out on some complex back story. Fables is capable of that, I think. Hellblazer has done that effectively for two decades. Perhaps we’re looking at the difference between series about characters and series about a hook? No one wanted to watch Twin Peaks after we found out who killed Laura Palmer. Some of these recent Vertigo concepts play out well for about 1-2 years and then fizzle. I doubted American Virgin’s quirky hook would last from the start (despite enjoying the series, for the most part).
To some extent, Vertigo has always had more “failures” than successes. Few series ever reach issue #25, let alone #50 or anything higher. These days, VERY FEW. I would argue this isn’t necessarily a tragedy. Perhaps more series need to be conceived as finite tales — 25-40 issues with discrete arcs building to one big climax. We knew Y the Last Man was only going to #60 from the start and that never seemed to kill interest in the title. Now, would that help improve sales? No idea, like I said, I have a complete run of Black Orchid. My opinion is skewed…
16 Nov 2007 at 9:39 am
QuoteIf they were going to adapt books to comics, I’d like them to go with F. Paul Wilson’s Repairman Jack series. The books about a man with no last name and no social security number who makes his money “fixing” situations for people who have no where else to turn. Throw a battle between two supernatural forces and you’d have a great crime/thriller/horror series.
Another good adaption would be Barry Eisler’s John Rain series about a Japanese-American assassin who specializes in making his murder like natural causes.
16 Nov 2007 at 11:52 am
QuoteI read the very first DMZ and just felt like “ya know what? I don’t like this comic! I don’t think comic WANTS me to like it.”
16 Nov 2007 at 3:32 pm
QuoteI say take the HBO metaphor and run with it. I mean aren’t both DC and HBO owned by Time Warner? So what about a comic based in Baltimore, focusing on an urban youth who fashions himself as a modern day Robin Hood, robbing from the drug dealers and giving to the poor. This could be a book focusing on the character of Omar before “The Wire” started. There’s even a nice group of writers from that show who might be able to make the leap to comics - guys like Dennis Lehane, Richard Price and George Pelecanos.
DC’s got Dan Abnett and Andy Lanning coming over from Marvel. Let them write some crazy, hardcore space opera. Like their Legion Lost run, but you know, with boobs.
And how to fix Vertigo. Start poaching some of the talent from companies like Archia Studios and Boom Studios. Other than that, hope like hell there’s a book on the horizon that can anchor the line like Y the Last Man did and Preacher before that. As much as I like Brian Wood, I just don’t think Northlanders is that book. At first glance it’s just too much of niche book to really grab readers right from the get-go (Of course, the same could have been said for the Walking Dead being a niche book, I guess).
16 Nov 2007 at 11:27 pm
QuoteBased on some of the folks doing OGN for Vertigo lately, they are looking outside the industry for new talent. He’s done comic work before (at DC and DH) but I’d love to see Michael Chabon do something for Vertigo…
17 Nov 2007 at 10:51 am
QuoteI read the first arc of DMZ (up to just before “Body of a Journalist”) and, although I loved Brian Wood from back in the “Demo” days and was really looking forward to the series based on the pitch, I just couldn’t really get excited by the actual book. Is that arc indicative of the rest of the series, and it’s just not for me, or did the series take a step up after the first arc?
Favourite Vertigo series ever is The Losers. More Diggle & Jock from Vertigo, please.
I’m really digging Un-Men at the moment, which no one has mentioned yet. It’s a pretty insane freakshow variation on Chandler/Hammett - I have no idea where it’s going, but it’s sure as hell entertaining.
Neal Stephenson on a Vertigo book would indeed be amazing.
Michael Chabon would also be great, but he seems to have a fairly close relationship with Dark Horse.
The writer I’d love to see them approach is Glen David Gold, who wrote “Carter Beats The Devil”. I’m sure he’d have some great stories in a range of genres to tell…
One other thought, and I’m just throwing it out there at 1:07am and without reading too many Vertigo books and it’s probably wildly inaccurate, but do you think there’s a certain sameness to the colouring in many of the Vertigo books? Occasionally I flick through Scalped or Hellblazer and they both look the same - they have a sort of drab flatness to the colour. Everything is just kind of murky. Y and Fables are brighter, but even they have a similar flatness to the art.
I certainly associate Vertigo with a certain look that gives the imprint a dull sameness (although a few series have departed from that, like The Losers, 100 Bullets, and to a lesser extent DMZ - all of which not coincidentally were series that popped enough for me to fork over cash and give them a go for at least a few issues each…)
19 Nov 2007 at 8:16 am
QuoteI’ve been sampling a few new-to-me podcasts lately, and found this one of yours about Vertigo interesting. It was at once topical, articulate, thoughtful, amnesiac, myopic, and solipsistic.
People have been predicting the imminent demise of Vertigo almost since the first batch of mini-series ended, and they do it every few years when one or two of the maxi-series is drawing to a close. “With {Sandman/Books of Magic/Preacher/Transmet/Lucifer/100 Bullets/Y} ending, and with {Kid Eternity/Swamp Thing II/House of Secrets/Minx/Deadenders/Testament/American Virgin} not taking off, Vertigo won’t have a flagship; they’re doomed.” All this has happened before. If you don’t remember history, you can’t predict the future. The rumors of Vertigo’s death are at the very least premature.
The comments about the transition from monthly serials to semi-annual paperbacks sounded like a litany of (pl)attitudes out of the 1990s, oblivious to changing buying habits. I don’t know who said what, but the complaint about being forced to “buy it again” when the collection comes out sounds like a completist set in his own buying habits, who can’t conceive of people who simply don’t think like that. I have a bunch of series which I have a half dozen issues followed by TPB vol.2; I never buy the same stuff twice. And the only reason I bought the singles (which I despise) in the first place was because it was the only way I could be sure of getting to read it; I’ve been ready for comics publishers to drop this serialization nonsense and switch to just publishing books for a decade already (ring any bells, Randy?) and I don’t think I’m alone. Whoever insisted that readers won’t be willing to pick up the first volume of a new TPB series if it hasn’t already been serialized, apparently hasn’t noticed the section of the bookstore where they sell these things called “manga” (and what’re they called… “novels”?). There are other ways to promote books (I think online samples are going to become one of the keys), and I think the comics industry has a better chance at adapting to the market than it has of getting the market out there to adapt to the peculiar way it has traditionally handled long-form works (expecting monthly visits to a speciality shop). In short, you guys are extrapolating from your own attitudes and habits - which are those of a shrinking demographic of guys who’ve been collecting singles since the Reagan administration - to a new market that doesn’t have those hang-ups.
Don’t get me wrong; it was an entertaining and engaging discussion, and as long as the topic is something I have an interest in (e.g. not G.I.Joe) I’ll be back for future installments. But at times it started sounding like a feedback look in an echo chamber, or Aristotle debating Socrates about the laws of physics without checking to see if their ideas reflected how things work in the world around them.
24 Nov 2007 at 4:00 pm
QuoteThat is a lot of five-dollar words, sir.
Jeez, and somebody called me out for using pejorative. 
Only one I’d argue is myopic… our viewpoints encompass that of reader, retailer and reviewer, so we are, I like to think, a little less myopic than your average message board discussion. Not that I’m claiming to be an expert, but I think there’s a depth of field that goes beyond myopic. Is duopic a word?
Have to respectfully disagree here. I think you’re viewing it from your own point of view as much as we are, and I could be wrong, but I suspect the completist mentality is fairly widespread amongst the comic buying set. At least, the folks who aren’t going to just move over to the online version of the comics, and that’s a whole ‘nother debate.
Nobody likes to buy something twice. Look at the griping when they put out another version of Blade Runner on DVD, a “remastered” album, etc. Granted, these items do sell, but I think that to totally disregard people who don’t want to buy something twice is underestimating a sizable portion of the audience.
You’re not, and I’ve been in this camp for a number of years as well, but trust me, from the point of view of a comic retailer, we’re not there yet. There are a lot of people who still love the single issue format, and I don’t think we’re at critical mass for the majority of the comics market to transition over to graphic novels only. Even with novels and manga doing as well as they do, even with “art comix” graphic novels becoming a bookstore phenomenon… I do believe it’s the direction we’re moving in, but I’ve become convinced (especially after 10+ years of people expecting a “trade only” market any minute now) that the single format is here to stay. Or if not to stay, at least to linger on for another 10 years at least, perhaps even more.
Honestly, I used to believe this, but working in a shop for 6 years has convinced me otherwise. It’s not just us fogies enjoying the single issues. The majority of the guys picking up single issues in my shop are in their twenties, not their thirties and forties. Most of them have been collecting since the Clinton administration at best.
Fair enough. I think you’re bringing your own biases as well, but as we noted at the beginning of the podcast, when it comes to this topic (and so many others in comics), really, nobody knows anything. It’s a lot of educated guesswork and attempts at predicting the future, which rarely delivers as expected.
Thanks for stopping in and for the extended and thoughtful comments, Todd! Good to “see” you again!
24 Nov 2007 at 6:05 pm
QuoteYou guys asked what we would like to see from Vertigo… well I for one always loved the idea of Scare Tactics, and thought that it could have been a solid vertigo book… only I would want it to be more of a real Horror Punk band story book, maybe a drama about the music biz…. also I might be the only one who feels this way, but I would dig more Terminal City stuff….1
25 Nov 2007 at 10:25 pm
QuoteListening to the podcast now. I loved Preacher and Sandman. Fables and Y, I had no interest in based on the solicits, but my wife wanted Y (thankfully) and Fables, DC posted a PDF of the first issue about three months in as a preview. I read it liked it, and have been a faithful reader since, which leads credence to the person who suggested putting the first issue on-line to promote a series of trades. Personally, Vertigo has suffered from obscure titles like Testament at a resurgence of event books. In 2003, Testament or Amecian Virgin ma have gotten a tryout of longer than 2-3 issues, but quickly cut thrown on the block to make way for 52, Countdown, World War Hulk, etc.
10 Dec 2007 at 5:42 pm
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