Comic Pants Podcast #50
“Spider-Man, Spider-Man, does whatever a Spider can! Sells his soul, to Mephisto!” Wait… that’s not right. But we’re not talking about that in this podcast, we’re talking about the results, Brand New Day, and all things Spider-Man in our 50th podcast! Join David Martindale (D3), Nick Budd, Dave Farabee, Dan Grendell and Randy Lander as we gather around the mic to talk about Jackpot, Freak, Aunt “Bring More Bling!” May, and all the good stuff from Brand New Day too.
As always, commentary is welcomed and encouraged. Let us know what you thought of the podcast, and if you have suggestions for future podcast topics, leave us a comment or write in to the show! Please drop us a line to give us some questions or comments for the next show.
Use the podcast feed buttons on the sidebar to subscribe, listen via the flash player below, or directly download the MP3 here:
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chipmunk edition?
04 Mar 2008 at 10:07 am
QuoteThe chipmunk speed comes from a bug in older versions of flash. Go to Adobe’s flash page to update to the latest version.
04 Mar 2008 at 10:57 am
QuoteWhile I thought the Slott/McNiven arc was only average, I really enjoyed the Guggenheim arc. I would’ve liked to see his run continue but I’m gonna stick with it for a while more anyway.
As for the artists, what do you guys think of the announcements that Barry Kitson & Marcos Martin will be doing arcs? I’m really excited about the idea of Martin drawing Spider-Man, personally.
04 Mar 2008 at 12:09 pm
QuoteConsarnit! Couldn’t you have put this up before I went to work today! >shakes fist<
04 Mar 2008 at 12:24 pm
QuoteI’m with D3 on this one, the middle ground tone between light and dark is working for me, didn’t notice the cursing thing either, and the Aunt May thing is also working for me, also as someone who dealt with homeless drug addicts in the past it didn’t strike me as an unrealistic approach.
04 Mar 2008 at 2:12 pm
QuoteAlright, a bunch of points.
- The first 2 arcs have been entertaining enough, but the big problem for me is that it just doesn’t feel like “my” Spider-man. For years, I’ve found Ultimate Spider-man to be better written and more compelling and entertaining than the MU Spider-books. Now on top of all that, Ultimate Peter Parker is the character I feel a stronger connection and sense of history with.
- For all Marvel’s talk about this not being a ret-con and “it’s the same Spidey we know and love, except single”, it’s not. For all intents and purposes this is a new character with a new history that no one (including the writers) seems to know.
- I’m not a continuity nut, but it’s nearly impossible to think of Spider-man in any context of the Marvel Universe pre-OMD anymore. They have made it clear that the stories as we’ve read them never happened.
- From what I’ve heard, there will be no established villains for the first year of BND (I also heard there were years of public identity stories in the can). Personally I think this is a cool idea, though I don’t particularly care for Menace as he seems like just another Goblin rehash to me.
- I also don’t like bleeped swear words in super-hero books (unless they’re not obvious like you guys said). To me it just comes off as lazy writing from guys who can’t do dramatic dialogue without profanity. And yeah, the “fucks” and “fuckings” have been very obvious in Marvel books for the last few years.
- I think the new status quo does achieve its intended goal of making Spider-man more accessible to new readers (as D3 can attest), but i think Marvel’s readership is so overwhelmingly comprised of old readers, that the real test is going to be seeing how many of them stick around.
- Putting my issues with the new status quo aside, I like the new format. I’ve always preferred characters having one ongoing story, and I never thought I’d see Spider-man written that way again.
- I’m very pleased with the art. There should be no excuse for the icons (Spidey, Supes, Batman, and X-men) to have anything less than A-list talent on their books. I was concerned that the art would suffer due to the increased publishing frequency, but Larroca and McNiven have done great work so far, and I can’t wait to see Barry Kitson and Marcos Martin (especially Martin) on the book down the line.
- Despite my misgivings I find myself more interested in Spider-man than the X-Men these days, even though I really enjoyed Messiah Complex. I don’t read the X-Men satellite books anymore, and the first issue of the core title didn’t show me anything new. Amazing on the other hand is generally one of the first things I read, in spite of (or possibly because of) my many problems with it. However, I’m going to be making a big move very soon, which will effectively cut my comics budget, and I probably won’t continue buying it beyond that point.
EDIT: geez that looks really long now that i’ve posted it
04 Mar 2008 at 2:31 pm
QuoteI’m sure I would like the books of ASM that are out right now but good God I can only buy so many books and looking at what all is coming out in May has my head spinning.
04 Mar 2008 at 3:44 pm
Quote>>I also don’t like bleeped swear words in super-hero books (unless they’re not obvious like you guys said). To me it just comes off as lazy writing from guys who can’t do dramatic dialogue without profanity.
I don’t know if we mentioned it in the podcast, but it occurs to me that the obvious TV analogs to superhero comics - fantasy-driven shows like Buffy, X-Files and Lost - manage to ground their fantasy in realism all the time without bringing in swearing. It can absolutely be done, and be done well.
As to whether it should be done…I don’t have any problem with swearing in the real world, but I still try to keep it appropriate to the company I keep. And superhero comics can’t seem to decide which company they’d like to keep. If Marvel and DC are really content to leave the pre-teens completely behind, maybe it’s time to upgrade to include a little swearing. I think network TV allows for “shit” and “asshole” now, right? Occasionally at least? Certainly cable channels like FX allow it for shows like The Shield. Maybe that range would be a more comfortable middle ground, still screening out the F-bomb like The Shield does.
It just seems weird to me to stick with the Silver Agey convention of gibberish symbols when it’s patently obvious what their intent is (”Suck my %&*ing c*ck, Spider-Man!”). It seems like we should either grow up a little and just let the swears in or scale back to make the gibberish stuff less explicit.
04 Mar 2008 at 6:12 pm
QuoteI think we should adopt the comics system in our podcasts and actually say %&*K instead of what we usually say. Keep it clean.
04 Mar 2008 at 6:51 pm
QuoteI’m not reading Brand New Day because of how badly done One More Day was but it would have been a struggle to get me to read the books anyway because they did away with the marriage. Professional writers should be able to come up with something better than what I can think up. If only the Marvel Adventures titles were an option to me, since most of the time I just feel like they have no consequence. The only time they escape that is with really fun stories like Jeff Parker’s Avengers with Modok.
I didn’t know they referred to the tablet storyline in Amazing until this podcast. It made me laugh because I wondered if they were allowed to refer to anything after the sixties as it might confuse some readers/the internet because of the new timeline.
If Marvel continues to get new readers it doesn’t really matter if the old readers leave. They can continue to use the same storylines over and over again as long as their revolving door of readers continues.
Spider-man doesn’t fit in with my Marvel Universe anymore. It seems like he’s out of sync with time or in another reality. When ever he shows up like with the Avengers I’m left wondering how things happened in the past now or what the characters ‘remember’.
I always wondered what new readers think about a title they never read before after they find out something they read was a mischaracterization but they didn’t know it at that point. If they liked a story where Spider-man was a mass murdered and then found out he wasn’t supposed to be like that.
Some of the things for Brand New Days sounded great like creating new villains since Marvel doesn’t create many new villains anymore. Then the supporting cast coming back which had to be weeded out in this day and age since there’s less panels and more decompression so less space for a supporting cast and subplots.
I’m more interested in the X-men nowadays then Spider-man. I only read the occasional Spider-man story and read Ultimate Spider-man, which isn’t my spideryman. I’ve always read an X-men title even if I didn’t read Uncanny I would be reading X-men or a few of the secondary books like X-Factor.
04 Mar 2008 at 6:55 pm
QuoteBoth these podcasts for me reinforce my lack of interest in any mainstream superhero. The only DC Universe title I read is Jonah Hex. I don’t read anything by Marvel. I can’t help but think that instead of rebooting, there should be new original endeavors.
04 Mar 2008 at 6:56 pm
QuoteQ*Bert style, eh? I like it.
04 Mar 2008 at 7:36 pm
QuoteDo you mean new superhero titles or that Marvel and DC should be doing more to break into other genres? I’ve sort of come to accept that what people want from them is generally the “comfort food” of favorite characters and that truly new concepts have a helluva time gaining a toehold. I think this is as much a problem with readers as it is with the companies, though one can always make the case that it’s the companies’ responsibility to do more to grow their readership…
04 Mar 2008 at 7:43 pm
QuoteHe’s a master chemist, he’s taken pictures of superheroes on other planets and if REALLY old stories still count “he’s the formost expert on Spiders on earth. can’t he have a job?
04 Mar 2008 at 7:53 pm
QuoteNo. Guys with jobs aren’t any more fun to read about than married guys.
04 Mar 2008 at 8:33 pm
QuoteI think there’s a lot of middle ground in between %$^@ and using the actual swear words. I mean, when Wolverine would say, “you’re out of your flamin’ gourd!” a kid could read it straight up (as I did as a kid), and an adult can easily “upgrade” the word if they like. Either way, the intent is more or less the same.
And, you know, stuff like “Great Scott!” and “Oh my stars and garters!” are pretty basic substitutes for “Holy fucking shit!” The intent is exactly the same. I loved it when Morrison or Whedon (I forget which) had Beast say “Oh my stars and %#@!$ garters.” A swear substitute within a swear substitute!
Generally speaking, swears often take me out of my reading experience. Even in a book like Y or Preacher. I guess it just seems like the author’s intent by throwing in foul language is too transparent, and the shock value trumps the storytelling value. But I don’t know why I feel this way about comics and not books or movies. I suppose I’m hardwired to think comics are for all ages.
04 Mar 2008 at 9:01 pm
Quote[Do you mean new superhero titles or that Marvel and DC should be doing more to break into other genres? I've sort of come to accept that what people want from them is generally the "comfort food" of favorite characters and that truly new concepts have a helluva time gaining a toehold. I think this is as much a problem with readers as it is with the companies, though one can always make the case that it's the companies' responsibility to do more to grow their readership...
I was thinking both or either. Just something new. I’m not saying stop publishing Spidey and the X-men altogether, but the field could benefit for more innovation. How about only one X-men title a month.
The comfort food is a good analogy. Truth is I’m not exactly immune to it myself. There are times I when I just want to read a Batman story, but most of my time I read Indie and Vertigo titles.
There are good signs in the field. DC has two Western titles. The new Blue Beetle is pretty cool, even if he is a new version of an old hero.
04 Mar 2008 at 9:12 pm
Quotei’m a fricking guy in a wheelchair with one good HAND I have a job for cyrin’ out loud
aND I do get how this might read better to new fans but i’m not NEW and not honestly that worried about new fans.I mean really I sort of want to read stories I WANT to read
04 Mar 2008 at 10:00 pm
QuotePretty much how I feel on Guggenheim. Slott was a disappointment given how good I thought he’d be on Spidey, but Guggenheim’s run was a great take on the new de-married, de-outed Spidey. If you can swallow the way the revamp was done (not easy, since it was *sooo badly* done), the Guggenheim stories are definitely worth reading.
I’m excited about Marcos Martin and hoping that Slott, now that he’s had to do a lot of the heavy lifting in setting things up, will deliver the great Spidey stories that all of us who read Spidey/Human Torch know he’s capable of.
Kitson, though? Pissed that Marvel took him off The Order (where he was perfect) for Spidey (where he’ll do fine, but he’s not as uniquely suited) and even more pissed that his writer is Bob Gale, since that probably means Kitson is going to be drawing Supervillain Freak. Blech.
You know, I’m down for this, except I can’t figure out how to pronounce “This comic #*%king s#*%^ked my b*#^ls.”
And if I can’t use that phrase, what’s the use of podcasting at all?
05 Mar 2008 at 12:45 am
QuoteI have to admit I come down on the negative side of the whole Brand New Day thing.
So Marvel wanted to bring Spiderman to new readers. Isn’t that what the whole Ultimate line was designed for?
05 Mar 2008 at 2:19 am
Quotejust some brief comments.
I think i am on D3’s side on this whole “Brand New Day” thing. I am probabaly closer to his age than the rest of you guys so i am not really surprised with my attitude towards BND. The fact that (like him) i’ve never really read a Spidey title before helps for sure.
my various attempts in the past on Friendly SM, Sensational SM or Amazing SM didn’t really get me hooked with the character but now i kinda dug the “fresh” start.
The dialogs might be a bit weird sometimes but you can get the same feeling with most of the comics out there from time to time.
anyway … I enjoyed the first 5 issues i read and i think i am gonna stick around for some more.
05 Mar 2008 at 4:04 am
QuoteIt’s pronounced “#*%king s#*%^ked my b*#^ls”, Randy. It’s not hard.
05 Mar 2008 at 5:16 am
QuoteHas anyone read the interview with Mark Millar in all of the Marvel issues this month about his run on Fantastic Four?
The irony there is hilarious. I’m paraphrasing here, but he talks about how in the 35 years (note: it’s actually almost 50 years, Mark) the Fantastic Four has been around, they haven’t grown organically as a family.
I laughed out loud. They’ll allow the FF to grow? But pull this “One More Day” nonsense to undo Spidey’s growth over the last couple of decades?
05 Mar 2008 at 8:05 am
QuoteThe important question that is being overlooked here is:
Will there be a Roger Stern Visionaries: Volume 2?
05 Mar 2008 at 8:43 am
Quote{sarcasm} If Peter had a good job at, say, Dow Chemical (or the MU version, Dowd Chemical) as a chemical engineer he just wouldn’t be relatable to regular guys like us — because having spidery powers and hanging out in a world filled with superhumans is TOTALLY relatable to me (as well as having a secret identity and a rogue’s gallery). {sarcasm}
You know, it is possible to be down on one’s luck while being gainfully employed and married, with all the responsibilities entailed. A Peter Parker who’s married and working a job he despises because it pays really well and he’s trying to take care of his family is a helluva lot more identifiable (and admirable) than a swinging Peter who still lives with his auntie. Maybe an ailing Aunt May should’ve moved in with HIM and Mary Jane; that would’ve added some stress and complications to his life without involving Satan.
05 Mar 2008 at 10:09 am
QuoteWhat I really want is more dramatic readings of bad comic dialog.
Maybe instead of a break topic, you stage a 2-minute comic book performance.
05 Mar 2008 at 11:09 am
QuoteI second the motion.
05 Mar 2008 at 12:00 pm
Quotebring more bling!
06 Mar 2008 at 11:39 pm
Quoteseriously if they ARE going Retro move him in with harry
07 Mar 2008 at 11:42 am
QuoteThis is the best idea I’ve ever heard. I love the break topics, but this would be spectacular. Just give it a try. Please, just give it a try.
09 Mar 2008 at 8:46 am
QuoteSo I’m jumping in, late response. I haven’t read the past issue or 2 of spidey but I have read One More Day and the first couple of Brand New Day. I’ve also read Messiah Complex and the first issue of X-Force.
One More Day was bad. Brand New Day and what I read so far is ok for me. It could be worse and it could be better. For me though, I enjoyed Messiah Complex was a lot better than One More Day. However, I’ll probably be keeping up more with Spidey than the X gang, just because my love for spidey. This excludes X-factor which I’ll always follow because its just fantastic.
Peter should not be living with Aunt May that is a little pathetic. Honestly I even thought that after all these years to see him struggle financially in the way he does was already pathetic. Spider-man is about the bad breaks, we get it. For my real Spidey fix, I like USM which I think for the most part has been consistently good and it still sells well right?
I haven’t read the latest issues and I heard that Mary Jane comes back. But it will be interesting to see Peter hook up with this new super hottie. Also my guess is that there will be some arc where Peter and Mary Jane get back together and love triumphs the Marvel Universe. aww, yes. how sweet.
Oh and let Aunt May die already!
09 Mar 2008 at 5:49 pm
QuoteAnybody got any scene suggestions? I think it’s pretty likely we’ll be doing this next podcast.
Hopefully that way you’ll forgive us when it’s late (again).
09 Mar 2008 at 10:48 pm
QuoteAny Morbius comic where he uses the phrase, “Slake my thirst!”
Which may be… any of ‘em.
10 Mar 2008 at 3:59 pm
QuoteLemme see,
All Star Batman and Robin
Thor (Silver age purple prose kind)
Anything with my main man Freak in it
10 Mar 2008 at 5:01 pm
QuoteSpeaking as someone who has not actually read but only READ ABOUT All Star Batman and Robin, this might be interesting to hear the dialog that made the screenwriter of Robocop 2 and 3 famous.
10 Mar 2008 at 5:11 pm
QuoteUnless I misunderstood you guys, you didn’t get that Aunt May’s line about the dragon at the homeless shelter was *supposed* to be stupid — she was “playing dumb” for the crook. I found it pretty clear she knew what was actually going on. Same with “bring more bling” — she was playing the part of the “dumb,” old, white woman trying to be “with it.”
I think it’s nice to see May tending to someone other than Peter and, even though she will let him stay in the house when he needs to, she isn’t quite molly-coddling him as she used to (”What, no wheatcakes?”). She has a life outside the house as a volunteer in her community — I say, more power to her!
I am picking up ASM each week now because I am enjoying it — simple as that, ’nuff said.
17 Mar 2008 at 11:16 am
QuoteNo, we got it… we just thought it was stupid.
The issue isn’t her playing dumb, it’s just that it was sooo cheesy in execution. It wasn’t in the slightest bit believable that this over-the-top version of May pretending she was a clueless old woman would stop this drug pusher for a minute. He’d either see through an unconvincing line of BS or just push past her to get to someone he could intimidate. Being bamboozled and pushed past the door by Aunt May makes him the lamest criminal ever, and thus not really a threat. Which renders the whole story pointless.
Except, of course, that it gave us the comedy of Freak and “bring more bling.” So it was accidentally awesome.
17 Mar 2008 at 7:53 pm
Quote